Śrīla Prabhupāda Speaks Out

“Come to the Platform of Goodness”

Here we continue a conversation between His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda and John Mize, a professor of philosophy. It took place in Los Angeles on June 23, 1975.

Disciple: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it seems you’re saying Kṛṣṅa is independent and we’re expansions of Him, part and parcel of Him—so naturally, we have to be independent, too.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. The part and parcel must have a little portion of independence. For instance, you take a drop of water from the sea, and all the chemical composition of the sea is there in the drop. So Kṛṣṅa is fully independent, and although we living entities are tiny like a drop of sea water, still the independence quality is there in minute quantity.

Professor Mize: But Kṛṣṅa has no tendency to fall, whereas we do.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṅa has no such tendency, because Kṛṣṅa is God, and therefore He is all-good. Even if He seems to fall down—according to our estimation—it is not actually a fall-down. If we are sensible, we cannot judge God. If we are devotees, in all circumstances we shall glorify God: “You are all-good.” That is a devotee. You cannot criticize God—”Oh, You are doing such a thing.” No.

Professor Mize: I’m still puzzled about the relationship of the soul to God. If the soul is eternal, as God is, and yet some souls have the tendency to fall and others don’t have that tendency.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: No, no—“eternal” does not mean not having the tendency to fall. For instance, you are now a professor. So you can fall down from your position. At the same time, that does not mean you are not eternal. If you should fall down from your position, you do not lose your eternality. You simply fall down.

You can become a professor; you can become an ordinary man. But you are eternal in all circumstances—eternal. Fall-down does not mean that one loses his eternality. That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā—na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin ajo nityaḥ śāśvato ’yaṁ purāṅo na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: the living entity is never born and never dies. This is eternality. You change your body, but you are eternal.

Professor Mize: It’s so puzzling, though—why I would spend eternity in a fallen situation.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore, the soul requires that sattva-guṅa qualification.

Professor Mize: The what qualification?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: That sattva-guṅa—goodness.

Professor Mize: I’m sorry.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Goodness.

Professor Mize: Goodness?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The mode of goodness. For instance, not that everyone becomes a philosophy professor. It requires a certain qualification. But at the same time, everyone can become a philosophy professor. Everyone has got the chance. Provided he is qualified, he can take the post of a philosophy professor. Everyone has got the chance—not that you only have got the chance. But still, it is not that without having a certain qualification anyone can become a philosophy professor. So these things will remain puzzling unless one comes to the qualification of goodness. Therefore, we order our disciples, “Come to the platform of goodness. Give up all these nonsense habits.” Then it will be possible.

Naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā. [To a disciple:] In the Srimad-Bhagavatam you find this verse. First Canto.

So we are now covered with base qualities: passion and ignorance. But tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ: when these base qualities are finished—even if not altogether, even if almost finished—then one can come to the platform of sattva-guṅa.

Professor Mize: The platform of?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Sattva-guṅa, goodness. On that platform one can understand very quickly. This Kṛṣṅa con-sciousness movement is a little suc-cessful because we are trying to bring the students to the platform of goodness. If you keep people on the platform of ignorance and passion, then it will be difficult.

Disciple: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you asked for Chapter 2, “Divinity and Divine Service,” verse 18:

naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā bhagavaty uttama-śloke bhaktir bhavati naiṣṭhikī

“By regular attendance in classes on the Bhāgavatam and by rendering of service to the pure devotee, all that is troublesome to the heart is almost completely destroyed, and loving service unto the Personality of Godhead, who is praised with transcendental songs, is established as an irrevocable fact.”

And now Śrīla Prabhupāda’s purport: “Here is the remedy for eliminating all inauspicious things within the heart which are considered to be obstacles in the path of self-realization. The remedy is the association of the Bhāgavatas. There are two types of Bhāgavatas, namely the book Bhāgavata and the devotee Bhāgavata. Both the Bhāgavatas are competent remedies, and both of them or either of them can be good enough to eliminate the obstacles. A devotee Bhāgavata is as good as the book Bhāgavata, because the devotee Bhāgavata leads his life in terms of the book Bhāgavata, and the book Bhāgavata is full of information about the Personality of Godhead and His pure devotees, who are also Bhāgavatas. Bhāgavata book and person are identical.

“The devotee Bhāgavata is a direct representative of Bhagavān, the Personality of Godhead. So by pleasing the devotee Bhāgavata, one can receive the benefit of the book Bhāgavata. Human reason fails to understand how by serving the devotee Bhāgavata or the book Bhāgavata one gets gradual promotion on the path of devotion. But actually these are facts explained by Śrīla Nāradadeva, who happened to be a maidservant’s son in his previous life. The maidservant was engaged in the menial service of the sages, and thus he also came into contact with them. And simply by associating with them and accepting the remnants of foodstuff left by the sages, the son of the maidservant got the chance to become the great devotee and personality Śrīla Nāradadeva. These are the miraculous effects of the association of Bhāgavatas. And to understand these effects practically, it should be noted that by such sincere association of the Bhāgavatas, one is sure to receive transcendental knowledge very easily, with the result that he becomes fixed in the devotional service of the Lord. The more progress is made in devotional service under the guidance of the Bhāgavatas, the more one becomes fixed in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. The messages of the book Bhāgavata, therefore, have to be received from the devotee Bhāgavata, and the combination of these two Bhāgavatas will help the neophyte devotee to make progress on and on.”

Śrīla Prabhupāda: So we are giving this chance to all: association with the devotee Bhāgavata and the grantha-Bhāgavata, or book Bhāgavata, to get them raised from the lower condition of life, kāma-lobha—lusty desires and greediness. This is the process.

And practically you can see all these young men. They have no more lusty desires or greediness. They are quite young, but they never ask permission from me at any time—“Now, today, I want to go to the cinema.” They have got all the funds in their hand. Yet they never spend without my permission. Again, these are young men, born in the Western countries, addicted to so many bad habits. But they have given those up.

This is practical. Professor Judah [of Berkeley’s Graduate Theological Union] has written me, “I am simply amazed at how you have converted drug-addicted hippies to become servants of Kṛṣṅa and humanity.” That is his puzzlement. But the method is so nice that it automatically becomes successful. Therefore, we are stressing on the method.

Disciple: In other words, Śrīla Prabhupāda, without practice of the method, it’s very difficult to understand the philosophical concepts.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Therefore it is said that without becoming a brāhmaṅa, nobody should touch the Vedas.

janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ veda-paṭhād bhaved vipro brahma jānātīti brāhmaṅaḥ

This verse explains the different stages of self-realization. Everyone is born a śūdra. Śūdra means the life of lamentation—he does something and laments. This is a śūdra. He does not know how to act, but by whims he does something to serve the material body’s lust or greediness, and then he laments later on. This is a śūdra. And brāhmaṅa means na śocati na kāṅkṣati: he acts to serve the Supreme Brahman, the Supreme Spirit, the original self—so he never laments; neither does he hanker. That is a brāhmaṅa.