Room Conversation

Prabhupāda: [indistinct]

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhāviṣṅu: Everywhere we go, the professors are very enthusiastic about the publications, and they say, "We will take immediately all the books." All over India.

Prabhupāda: Many Indians. How many orders you booked?

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: A whole page on us.

Prabhupāda: Sunday? What is the...

Mahāṁśa: Sunday Chronicle. Deccan Chronicle. The biggest distributed English paper in this area.

Prabhupāda: What is this, Ratha-yātrā?

Hari-śauri: In New York.

Gargamuni: The Ratha-yātrā conquering.

Prabhupāda: I told you Ratha-yātrā, it is...

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: Conquer the world.

Prabhupāda: ...the eyesore of the Communist party.

Hari-śauri: It says underneath, "Ratha-yātrā in foreign lands." That's the caption underneath the picture.

Prabhupāda: Where is it?

Gargamuni: "Ratha-yātrā in foreign lands."

Prabhupāda: "Hare Kṛṣṅa Swamis." Read it. Read it.

Maṅihāra: "Hare Kṛṣṅa Swamis."

Hari-śauri: Speak up.

Maṅihāra: "Man has unraveled many mysteries in his progress from barbarianism to civilization in his relentless pursuit of knowledge and his bid to add to his storehouse of information about the myriad mysteries of the universe. He has outstepped the boundaries of the earth and turned his attention to outer space, and at present he is trying to determine whether life exists on Mars. But even though he has climbed a long way up the ladder of knowledge, the great mystery of all baffles him still—the mystery of God. Who is God? What is the relationship between man and God? Why should man try to realize God? These are some of the questions which have been engaging the attention of all thinking men from times immemorial. The search for God has been going on down the ages because the Supreme Being is God, and to know Him is to know the truth of all things, in all forms, in time as well as in space. The destiny of man is unity with God, for man is essentially inseparable from God. It is this knowledge which helps man to attain the state of eternal satisfaction, or mokṣa. But for self-knowledge, mokṣa would be impossible. And self-knowledge would be impossible of attainment but for those divine messengers who throw light on the path of our lives. Whenever true knowledge, spiritual knowledge, begins to vanish from the face of the earth and tends to lapse into oblivion, the divine messengers revive that knowledge and nourish it with the vitality of their own experience. These divine messengers seek to awaken man to the knowledge of his real heritage. One such divine messenger is His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda..."

Prabhupāda: He has made the ground. [laughter]

Mahāṁśa: It's really like an essay.

Gargamuni: We should send this to Blitz, this article. Because they have said "ungodly," and he is saying "divine messenger."

Prabhupāda: Yes. You please send this. Get some copies and send this rascal editor Karanji. He is known to you? He is a Parsi?

Mahāṁśa: No, I don't know him.

Prabhupāda: [laughs] Yes. Go on.

Maṅihāra: "ISKCON, which is a worldwide nonsectarian movement dedicated to propagating the message of the Vedas for the benefit of mankind. The Society was founded in 1966 by Swami Prabhupāda, who had come to the United States a year earlier on the order of his spiritual master to teach Kṛṣṅa consciousness in the Western world. Over the years, ISKCON has steadily grown in popularity and influence, and today it is widely recognized by theologians, scholars and laymen as a genuine and important spiritual movement."

Prabhupāda: This is "theologians, scholars," and they, he said... Just see. Go on.

Maṅihāra: "At present there are 108 ISKCON centers in 30 countries throughout the world. These centers enable full-time members to live in close association, following the principles of Vedic life, and also provide a place where interested visitors can learn about the philosophy and culture of Kṛṣṅa consciousness and participate in its various functions. The basis of the movement is the Hare Kṛṣṅa mantra—Hare Kṛṣṅa, Hare Kṛṣṅa, Kṛṣṅa Kṛṣṅa, Hare Hare / Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. The chanting of this mantra is the most recommended means for spiritual progress in this age, as it cleanses the mind and enables one to transcend the temporary designations of race, religion and nationality and to understand one's true identity as an eternal spiritual being. In other words, simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṅa one can directly experience self-realization and lead a blissful life. The devotees experience divine ecstasy in singing the holy names of God to the accompaniment of musical instruments. The Hare Kṛṣṅa devotees, as a prerequisite for the serious pursuit of spiritual life, voluntarily abstain from meat-eating, illicit sex, intoxication and gambling. The Kṛṣṅa conscious life-style is based on the principles of simple living and high thinking. The devotees rise very early, about 3:30 a.m., and spend the morning hours in meditation and study. During the day, the main activity is preaching Kṛṣṅa consciousness. Many devotees go out to public places to distribute the Society's books and its official journal, Back to Godhead magazine, which has a monthly circulation more than a million copies in fourteen different languages. In addition to book distribution, devotees engage in a variety of activities, including teaching, artistic pursuits and farming. The qualification in Kṛṣṅa consciousness is not what kind of work one performs, but that it be done in the spirit of devotion to God. For the first time, Swami Prabhupāda has introduced Ratha-yātrā of Lord Jagannātha of Purī in the Western world. This festival is now being conducted in the major cities of the world like San Francisco, Philadelphia, Chicago, New York, London, Paris, etcetera. Millions of people relish the taste of pulling the transcendental ratha and partake of Kṛṣṅa prasāda. Another of ISKCON's projects is New Vrindavan, a model thousand-acre Kṛṣṅa conscious community farm in the hills of West Virginia. This is ISKCON's first venture in protecting cows from going to the slaughterhouses."

Prabhupāda: Take care of the cows and...?

Maṅihāra: It says, "This is ISKCON's first venture in protecting cows from going to slaughterhouses. Over four hundred cows give twelve hundred litres of milk daily, providing natural, healthy products like butter, ghee, etcetera, and especially milk sweets like gulabjamon, rasagullā, etcetera."

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Pradyumna: Just the names of those...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Enclose this quote.

Maṅihāra: "ISKCON has generated many community farms like New Vrindavan, providing the ideal atmosphere of a busy yet peaceful village, fully devoted to spiritual progress. Swami Prabhupāda has also established the first Kṛṣṅa conscious gurukula in the West, a primary school in Dallas, Texas, for one hundred boys and girls between the ages of five and fifteen. Soon after its success, many such gurukulas have sprung up all over the world. Aside from teaching reading, writing, mathematics, geography, etcetera, the gurukula teaches the child how to cultivate God consciousness. Once a year the members of ISKCON journey to the Society's international headquarters at Śrīdhāma Māyāpur, ninety miles north of Calcutta, and the birthplace of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. It is the site of a ten-crore-rupees international Vedic village comprised of community farming projects, high-class gurukula school, free medicinal facilities, and handloom weaving center. An institute of Vedic studies is proposed to be established at this site. Other major ISKCON centers in India are in Vṛndāvana, Bombay and Kurukṣetra, the site of a three-crore-rupee international Sanskrit university. This project will be sponsored by Alfred Ford, a nephew of Henry Ford. This will be the cultural..."

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Nephew, nephew of Ford, that's a fact. Alfred is from the daughter's side.

Pradyumna: Oh, daughter's side.

Prabhupāda: So the present Mr. Ford, his nephew, certainly, because daughter's side. His mother is the daughter, is granddaughter of Henry Ford. Alfred's mother is the granddaughter of Henry Ford. Therefore the present Ford is the maternal uncle of Alfred.

Maṅihāra: "This will be a cultural gateway of India for the people of the world. Hyderabad is the South Indian headquarters for ISKCON in India. The magnificent Śrī Śrī Rādhā-Madana-mohana temple at Nampally Station Road, inaugurated by Swami Prabhupāda, will serve as a center of the cultural, spiritual, educational and social activities given to uplift the lives of people here. According to Śrī Mahāṁśa Swami, the president of the Society here, the devotees will hold seminars in colleges, factories, business centers, universities, schools, etcetera, to teach the techniques of spiritualizing the day-to-day life. Deity worship accompanied by the constant chanting of the holy names will be a special feature at the center. Besides, there will be daily classes in Sanskrit, Bhagavad-gītā, Bhāgavatam and the Upaniṣads. There will be a Vedic library, consisting of Swami Prabhupāda's books and various books on comparative study of religion. A cassette library will be a special feature here. Devotees will travel into towns and villages and do saṅkīrtana for the uplift of the masses. ISKCON Hyderabad is introducing for the first time in South India its major 600-acre community farming project, 40 kilometers from Hyderabad, to benefit about 20,000 villages. Besides regular free nutritional food distribution program, ISKCON is also planning to set up a model high-yielding 600-cow dairy farm, handloom centers, nature-cure hospital, and gurukula school project. Swami Prabhupāda's most substantial contribution, however, is to be found in his books, a veritable storehouse of knowledge and wisdom. He has written more than 50 books so far, explaining the principles of Kṛṣṅa, or God consciousness, in a logical, practical and scientific way. Through his books people are understanding the eternal wisdom of the ancient Indian scriptures. That ISKCON has made a significant contribution to the intellectual, cultural and spiritual life of contemporary man is obvious from the fact that people of all ages and..."

Prabhupāda: A very important article.

Gargamuni: A very good article.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And it details everything. So you purchase some copies. We have to prepare...

Maṅihāra: "...of varying degrees of education and from many walks of life—students, teachers, scientists, servicemen, laborers and professionals—indeed numerous race, creeds and nationalities—are attached towards it. The unifying characteristics that brings such diverse individuals to Kṛṣṅa consciousness are high ethical standards and a sincere desire to understand spiritual truths. To make a pleasure-loving and easy-going..."

Prabhupāda: Easy-going life?

Maṅihāra: No. Oh, "to make a pleasure-loving and easy-going Western youth to shed his fashionable dress and make him give up his dearly cherished beefsteaks, wine and women, cannabis and LSD, and don the saffron robe, shave his head, hold the daṅḍa and chant Hare Kṛṣṅa, is no mean achievement. That ISKCON has made thousands of Western youths perform this seemingly impossible task is an eloquent testimony of the impact it has made on the life of the contemporary West. ISKCON does offer to the modern man a haven of refuge from the complexity and anxiety of present-day life. The society has indeed set before itself a noble and laudable ideal..."

Prabhupāda: When the Englishmen were ruling over this country and Gandhi had to do so much labor, his life sacrificed, some way or other they were gone. Now the same Englishman is working here as book distributor, [laughs] who was our ruler. So whose achievement is better? Gandhi's or mine?

Gargamuni: Yours.

Prabhupāda: And one Englishman is giving me massage.

Maṅihāra: Yes, right.

Prabhupāda: This rascal criticizing. But they have come to me for money? They are poor or they are illiterate fools? They have come to me for money or some material gain? No. Unless they are convinced about the spiritual gain, why they should give me such service? They have no eyes to see.

Gargamuni: No, because in India, many Indians, when they approach a guru, they want something. But we didn't have to approach you for anything.

Prabhupāda: That is the speciality. The guru... One should go to guru to serve him as menial servant. That is acceptance of guru. That is required. Nīcavat. Nīca. Nīca means menial. Just like menial servant, he does everything. Similarly, to live with guru means to serve him as a menial servant. That is Vedic injunction. Nīcavat. You should not be puffed up, that "I am coming from such royal family, I am coming from such rich family." And that tendency is trained up from the childhood. A child does not know. Just like Pradyumna's son. You can engage him in any menial service. He does not discriminate. He's trained up. So this is gurukula. Very word is used, nīcavat. He gives service to the guru just like a menial servant. And this training being given from the childhood, he does not know what is low or what is high. His spiritual master asks to do something... Even Kṛṣṅa went to the forest to collect some dry wood. Vasudeva's son, in royal family, but He had to go. And all of a sudden there was storm and..., what is called?

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: Lightning.

Maṅihāra: Thunder.

Prabhupāda: No.

Hari-śauri: Hail.

Prabhupāda: Hailstorm. And they became entrapped in the jungle whole night. And in the morning guru with other disciples came to search out them. And this Sudāmā Vipra and Kṛṣṅa was stranded, and they were found out, then taken back. So even Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He served the guru as menial. The guru's wife asked Him, "Bring some fuel from the jungle," and they went immediately. This is gurukula. No, I mean to say, prestigious position. "Guru has said—has to be done." This training. Then?

Maṅihāra: There's just a few more sentences. "The Society has indeed set for itself a noble and laudable ideal, producing men and women of high character, sincerity and God consciousness."

Prabhupāda: Send this rascal.

Gargamuni: Yes, this shall be sent. And also to Om Mehta.

Prabhupāda: You send. He knows you, Gargamuni. Yes.

Gargamuni: I will sign my name especially.

Prabhupāda: Say "You have mentioned several times my name, so for your benefit, and to open your eyes, I am sending you one article. Please read what ISKCON is doing." Simply write this.

Gargamuni: I have to go to Delhi for my carnet. I will go to the office, the Blitz office, and bring them this personally.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Gargamuni: "You have written about me, but I would like to present you this article."

Prabhupāda: Yes. "For your benefit."

Gargamuni: Yes, that is a fact.

Prabhupāda: So you are keeping good health?

Prabhāviṣṅu: Oh, yes, very good health.

Prabhupāda: So, wherefrom just now you are coming?

Prabhāviṣṅu: Well, we've just come from eastern coast. We came down from Calcutta through Visakhapatnam and Vijayawada. We took some orders in Guntur. And before that...

Prabhupāda: Guntur there is university?

Pradyumna: Yes, there's a new one.

Prabhāviṣṅu: New one, yes. Nagarjuna.

Prabhupāda: Guntur, our Tīrtha Mahārāja has got a branch there. Is it not? Gauḍīya Maṭha, they have got branch?

Prabhāviṣṅu: In Visakhapatnam.

Prabhupāda: No, that is another. In Guntur, yes.

Prabhāviṣṅu: I didn't see.

Prabhupāda: Visakhapatnam, there is one of my Godbrothers, Purī Mahārāja. Did you go there?

Prabhāviṣṅu: No. But we saw some books which they published, and they had your picture in the front actually.

Gargamuni: Oh, really?

Prabhāviṣṅu: Just on the inside page your picture was there.

Prabhupāda: So Guntur you received order from...?

Prabhāviṣṅu: The State Regional Library. It's the most prestigious library in Andhra Pradesh. They took a complete order for all the books.

Gargamuni: Caitanya-caritāmṛta and Bhāgavatam.

Prabhāviṣṅu: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Standing order.

Prabhāviṣṅu: Yes, standing order. And Visakhapatnam University also, standing order for all the books. We'll probably go back to Guntur again, and I think we'll make some more orders there next week. But it was Saturday, and some of the colleges were closed, so we couldn't see the professors.

Prabhupāda: Keep your health nice, because Indian climate sometimes does not suit. Eat simple things—fruits...

Prabhāviṣṅu: Vegetables.

Prabhupāda: Don't be miser in the matter of... But don't eat voraciously. Eat sufficiently, nutritious.

Gargamuni: Yes. I have also told they should eat nice fruits and vegetable so they will keep healthy.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Vegetable, fruits, very innocent. Little milk. That's all. Even if you don't eat these food grains, that is preferred.

Prabhāviṣṅu: Better?

Prabhupāda: Better. Vegetable and fruits and milk, that is sufficient nutritious.

Gargamuni: Very easy to digest.

Prabhupāda: There is no question of disease. But for our tongue taste we eat so many cooked food. But if we eat vegetables, boiled vegetables and fruits and milk, ah, it is sufficient. Ekādaśī. [laughter] Daily ekādaśī. And these peanuts—a few grains, not much—that is also nice. Cashew, peanut. Yes. So thank you very much. You are working so much for Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṅa-upadeśa [Cc Madhya 7.128].

[Instruct everyone to follow the orders of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṅa as they are given in the Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In this way become a spiritual master and try to liberate everyone in this land.]

Bās. You become a guru. Actually you are doing the guru's work. "Here is a message from Kṛṣṅa. Please take it." Bās. Simple. Yāre dekha. And whomever you meet, tāre kaha kṛṣṅa-upadeśa, either you speak personally or give him a book.

Maṅihāra: This is the noon paper published...

Prabhupāda: Explosion. Mahāṁśa Swami is continuing this.

Prabhāviṣṅu: Yes.

Prabhupāda: It looks nice.

Prabhāviṣṅu: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. As soon as we decide to work for Kṛṣṅa very sincere... [chuckling] What is this Kṛṣṅa crossword? This is gambling.

Gargamuni: Kṛṣṅa crossword puzzle.

Hari-śauri: Oh. Crosswords are gambling?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Maṅihāra: Gambling?

Prabhupāda: Is it not gambling?

Maṅihāra: No, it makes it... It's to make...

Hari-śauri: They give clues, and it's to make you think.

Maṅihāra: They give a clue. They say...

Prabhupāda: But there is prize.

Maṅihāra: No, I don't think there is prize.

Gargamuni: There is in the other newspapers. Maybe not in this. But they do offer prize. You send in, then they choose prize.

Prabhupāda: So they work, originally it became for prize. [laughs] Otherwise, these karmīs, why they shall waste their time? They wanted some prize.

Maṅihāra: There's no mention of a prize.

Hari-śauri: Sometimes they print their names in the next issue: "The last week's winner was..."

Prabhupāda: "Winner." That means prize-winner.

Maṅihāra: There's no mention of any reward. Just...

Prabhupāda: Anything of these four prohibited regulations should not do. Yatra pāpaś catur-vidhā. That catur-vidhā, four kinds of pāpa, sinful activities. From the very beginning, because I introduced this, no catur-vidhā, four kinds of pāpa, therefore our Society is now so respected. From the very beginning we are following to keep these principles in forefront. This is appreciated by anyone. Even he is himself a debauch, he'll appreciate. It is so nice thing. A person may be a big drunkard, but he'll never like to see his son drunkard. That is natural.

Gargamuni: Yes. My father, he used to smoke, but he said, "You should not smoke."

Prabhupāda: He said like that?

Gargamuni: Yes. I think all fathers must say.

Hari-śauri: Yes, mine did too. One day I walked in with a cigarette, so he beat me because I was smoking and I was only fourteen or something. So then I said, "But you were doing the same thing." [laughs] And he beat me even more.

Maṅihāra: They say, "I am old enough to do it. You are not."

Prabhupāda: "When you are an older, you become a debauchee. But don't become now." [laughing] If it is a good thing, why older and younger?

Maṅihāra: That's true. Our relatives, especially close relatives, parents, and they see, they can see immediately how much...

Prabhupāda: This is natural. These things are not good. They know it, but they are habituated. But they do not like that son should be habituated. That is natural. Your father predicted about Brahmānanda, that "This boy will be a saintly man."

Gargamuni: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He'll not be a karmī. From the beginning he could understand. How did he understand?

Gargamuni: Because his tendencies were never in the business field. He was an intellectual. He used to read a lot, and he was interested in religion.

Prabhupāda: From the very beginning.

Gargamuni: Yes. In college he took courses in religion.

Prabhupāda: And when he first came to me, he expressed that "I was searching this institution. Now I'll join." And he was getting at that time four hundred dollars?

Gargamuni: Yes. A schoolteacher.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So he was paying everything almost, keeping little money. And then he brought him.

Hari-śauri: I have a picture of you with your hair. I'll show you. I have a picture of Gargamuni Swami when he still had hair and karmī clothes.

Gargamuni: "Shakespearean locks." Prabhupāda used to call me that.

Hari-śauri: Hair in this picture's a bit cropped up, but you had a bead bag then.

Gargamuni: Oh, yeah, yeah. Then that was later.

Prabhupāda: You were selling Back to Godhead on the street?

Gargamuni: Yes, in the pushcart.

Prabhupāda: That time how many copies you were printing?

Gargamuni: We were printing 500 to 1,000. We started at 500 then to 1,000.

Prabhupāda: Then when Brahmānanda proposed that "We can get it printed from Japan, but they want order for 20,000 minimum." So I said yes. Five hundred, 1,000 we were selling, and he proposed 20,000. "Yes. You order." [laughs] Now, two million?

Hari-śauri: The biggest one, I think, was that centennial, bicentennial issue. What was that? It increases, anyway, every year.

Prabhupāda: Brahmānanda was hesitating how 20,000 per month we shall consume.

Gargamuni: Yes, we were all afraid.

Prabhupāda: [laughs] I said, "Yes. You order. We shall consume." Then this Tamāla Kṛṣṅa, he helped.

Hari-śauri: He was in book distribution from the start.

Gargamuni: Yes. From Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: That's right.

Gargamuni: From their sales they were sending.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He gave impetus for distribution. Then we got encouragement—other party, another party. Where those mimeograph machine gone?

Gargamuni: I don't know. After I went to San Francisco... They should be preserved. That was beginning. We could still use them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I paid $150 I had collected. They wanted hundred dollars each or $125 each. So I went there, that I want two machines, but I have got $150 dollars only. So he wanted to throw away the machine. "All right, you take two machines." So I gave $150 and took away two machines. I think it is more costly. Eh?

Gargamuni: Yes, oh, yes. Those are heavy-duty machines. They were old, but they were good.

Prabhupāda: No, they were working nicely. And the printer was that boy?

Gargamuni: Yeah, Ranchor.

Prabhupāda: Ranchor. Spoiling so much paper.

Gargamuni: Yes, so much.

Prabhupāda: He brought $500 from his grandfather.

Gargamuni: Yes, he donated.

Prabhupāda: His father and mother divorced. So he used to visit sometimes his grandfather, father's father. So naturally grandfather, when he used to visit, he gave him some money.

Hari-śauri: And he'd give it to you. Then he gave it to you.

Prabhupāda: Once he gave me. Anyway, Kṛṣṅa is giving us encouragement. Religious, philosophical book, as soon as they hear of it they immediately say, "No, no, we..." That is the natural tendency.

Prabhāviṣṅu: But here in India, when they see that a white man has taken to the Vaiṣṅava religion...

Prabhupāda: That influences.

Prabhāviṣṅu: ...they are so much respectful.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Naturally. That chief minister said.

Gargamuni: Yes. He mentioned. "It is a reversal of history."

Prabhupāda: So that was my policy, that I shall go America, and if the Americans become devotees then these rascals will be automatically... Here they could not appreciate. When I started, wanted to start this movement, they refused to give their son.

Hari-śauri: They always say a preacher is never appreciated in his home town.

Prabhupāda: "Swāmījī, what benefit there will be by becoming brāhmaṅa, by devotee? They have to earn their livelihood." Spiritual culture is in India practically rejected. They are convinced with the idea that for spiritual culture we are so much...

Gargamuni: Poverty-stricken.

Prabhupāda: ...behind this material. That is their full conviction.

Hari-śauri: It must have been a big shock for them when they first saw our devotees.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Hari-śauri: It must have been a big shock for them when they saw these shaved heads and chanting.

Prabhupāda: That minister is coming?

Maṅihāra: Today?

Prabhupāda: Somebody told me?

Hari-śauri: Endowments Minister or something?

Gargamuni: Yes, at 10:30 they said. Gopāla said he's coming. I don't know, but I will ask.

Maṅihāra: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when we give prasādam to people...

Prabhupāda: Anyone who comes, he must be given prasādam.

Maṅihāra: ...what is the benefit they get, exactly? There have been so many concoctions: "Oh, they will take human birth," "They will take this..." What is the actual benefit that a karmī will get when he takes prasādam?

Prabhupāda: Prasādam means the mercy of Kṛṣṅa.

Maṅihāra: Mercy.

Prabhupāda: By eating, you are getting mercy. Kṛṣṅa baḍa dayāmaya karibāre jihvā jaya swa-prasād-anna dilo bhāi. Swa-prasād-anna dilo bhāi. Sei prasāda anna pāo rādhā-kṛṣṅa-guṅa gāo preme ḍāko caitanya-nitāi.

Maṅihāra: 'Cause some devotees, they are saying...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṅa baḍa dayāmaya. Because we want eating, so He is giving His mercy through eating. Eating, nobody will refuse. So by eating he is being favored by Kṛṣṅa. This is the process. You understand Bengali? Kṛṣṅa baḍa dayāmaya: He's very merciful. Karibāre jihvā jaya. We are accustomed to eat, go to the restaurant, go to the hotel, go to here and there, at home and so on. Simply eating, eating. So this is jihvā lampaṭa, prostitution of the tongue. Just like a woman prostitute is not satisfied with one man. Similarly, our tongue is like prostitute. It is not satisfied with simple foods. Sometimes here, sometimes there, sometimes on the street, sometimes on the restaurant, sometimes a hotel. Regular prostitution. It is called tongue prostitution. There are prostitution of three things: prostitution of the tongue, prostitution of the belly and prostitution of the genital. Three kinds of. Udara-upastha-vegam. Jihvā-udara-upastha-vegam [Upadeśāmṛta 1]. Straight line. So to stop this prostitution is to control the tongue. The tongue prostitution means he wants to eat varieties of foodstuff. Kṛṣṅa is so merciful, "All right, you eat varieties of prasādam." Then tongue prostitution is controlled, and naturally the belly and the genital controlled. Kṛṣṅa baḍo doyāmoy karibāre jihvā jaya. To own victory over the tongue, He has given varieties... Therefore all nice things should be offered to Kṛṣṅa, and then take prasādam. They will be benefited.

Maṅihāra: This is Kṛṣṅa's arrangement, special.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṅa baḍo doyāmoy karibāre jihvā jaya... Jaya means you conquer over the tongue. If you do not give tongue Kṛṣṅa prasādam, then the tongue will dictate, "Why not go to the restaurant?" So this is the process. Give everyone nice prasādam. His tongue will be conquered and he'll be conquered. He'll be able to conquer over the prostitution of the senses, and then he'll become a devotee.

[pause]

Prabhupāda: So Hyderabad papers have given us good publicity. Very nice.

Hari-śauri: Any reasonable persons appreciate it.

Prabhupāda: How the books are being supplied? From Bombay?

Prabhāviṣṅu: Well, when we were working from Bombay, Bombay was sending them by rail. But now Gargamuni Swami, he has given us some books to supply immediately to the libraries, and then others that we can't... If we don't have enough to supply all the libraries, he's going to arrange for more to be sent. I think he wants to send a van, a vehicle around all the colleges to deliver the books.

Prabhupāda: He will make some good profit? [laughs] Never mind. If books are distributed, that is our satisfaction. Let anyone make some profit. We don't mind.

Hari-śauri: No, he wants to send one of our vehicles around. Yes?

Prabhupāda: Never mind. The books must reach there. That is my...

Prabhāviṣṅu: One way or the other, the books will get there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all. Doesn't matter. We are not after profit.

Prabhāviṣṅu: Besides, any profit, it goes toward the development of Kṛṣṅa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So what is the total amount?

Prabhāviṣṅu: Of standing orders? So many. Over two hundred.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, wherever you go, they take it.

Prabhāviṣṅu: Yes. All these people... Practically every college will take something at least. If they don't have enough money for the full standing order, at least they take some books out of respect. Everywhere they are very respectful, and everyone has heard of you and the work that you've done.

Prabhupāda: They like.

Prabhāviṣṅu: Oh, very much. People are very impressed. In the Western world people are so much unfavorable towards us, but here in India they treat us like kings. Sometimes when I come to colleges practically they touch my feet and give me all kinds of foodstuffs and drinks. Very nice.

Hari-śauri: Cultured.

Maṅihāra: Even in the West they are not so favorable, but still everybody has heard of Kṛṣṅa. Everybody's heard of the Hare Kṛṣṅa people.

Mahāṁśa: There's only five first initiations. Those ladies, I told them to wait some more time.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Maṅihāra: Those ladies, I told them to wait for some more time because they were still drinking tea and coffee 'til yesterday.

Prabhupāda: No, if they promise they will give up, then we can give.

Mahāṁśa: I already told them, "You please..." They said they will give up, but I said that you...

Prabhupāda: No, if they promise, you can give.

Mahāṁśa: But they are waiting. What shall I tell them now? I just now told them...

Prabhupāda: No, tell them that "If you promise from today you will give up..."

Mahāṁśa: They promised.

Prabhupāda: Then we shall give it.

Mahāṁśa: All five of them?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. If they have promised, we shall give. Simply you don't break promise. You have promised—do it. That's all.

Mahāṁśa: [laughs] I'll tell them. Another thing was those... What is... I don't know. What is the position of ladies being initiated? They are young girls. They may get married. They may get married to someone outside the Society.

Prabhupāda: But she can chant and observe the rules and regulations—what is that?

Mahāṁśa: Even if her husband does not follow?

Prabhupāda: That does not matter. It is individual.

Mahāṁśa: Okay. Then there'll be five more.

Prabhupāda: My sister, while she was married, so her father-in-law's house, they were all eating fish. So a new girl, ten years, eleven years old. So she was given this foodstuff with fish and everything. So she was crying. So her mother-in-law, "Why you are crying?" "No, we do not touch all these things." She immediately arranged special cooking for her. So her husband and other members, they were taking fish, but she never touched. She never touched. She does not know what is fish. If one wants to keep oneself pure, he or she can keep herself pure in any circumstances.

Mahāṁśa: Okay. And there'll be two second initiations, two devotees from here. So I will talk to them again, because just now I've told them, "You must wait one month more." They were willing to.

Prabhupāda: If they'll promise, that's all right.

Mahāṁśa: So I'll tell them like that. Okay. Then the names and beads will be given downstairs by Your Grace? You'll be coming down?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: They should be wearing their neckbeads before. At least two lines.

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṅa will recognize your service. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ [Bg 18.69]. You are distributing this knowledge, so you become immediately recognized, very dear servant, very confidential servant of Kṛṣṅa. He says personally. Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu [Bg 18.69]: "Amongst the human beings, those who are doing this preaching, nobody is dearer than these persons to Me—anyone." You have read that?

Prabhāviṣṅu: That's in Eighteenth Chapter? Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. To be quickly recognized by Kṛṣṅa, this is the short-cut process. He never says those who are sitting in a secluded place meditating or chanting, doing nothing, He never says that "They are My very dear devotees." But those who are preaching—na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me [Bg 18.69]. Just like government takes more care for the soldiers, especially when there is fighting. They are giving life for the state. So their comfort—first consideration. In the warfield, enough supplies. Anything the soldiers require, enough supplies. Sometimes the store is blown out, and again another store is ready. Therefore in the wartime they control. In the... [break] ...is destroy them. And still another store. So therefore supply is sufficient. Civil supplies become controlled. Whatever they want, supply them. The Britishers, British time, I have seen, in the village they will let loose the soldiers to rape anyone.

Maṅihāra: It's the sergeants and the corporals that go first. The leaders of the battalion, they will go first to start to ravage and loot, and then all the other men will follow.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere, huh? So I have seen in Calcutta outside villages. So my maternal uncle's house was their [indistinct]. So when they used to come there was a, what is called, rumor, "Soldiers come here." They'll captured any woman from the street. No restrictions.

Maṅihāra: They are simply killing, killing, killing, for no reason; therefore this killing turns just into..., they turn into animal. So when they see woman, immediately...

Prabhupāda: So everywhere the same business. The soldiers are let loose in the villages.

Pradyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda? What is the program? Will you becoming down?

Prabhupāda: Why not? Yes. As soon as ready I shall go.

Pradyumna: As soon as ready you will come. We're not waiting for any minister or something to come or anything?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: He's supposed to be here now.

Prabhupāda: Just see if he's coming actually. Otherwise...

Pradyumna: But as soon as we are ready, you will come down?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Maṅihāra: Now England is finished. Everybody is completely unhappy. Nobody is happy in England. The rich men, once they were happy; now they are having their money taken away by the government. They are taxing, taxing, taxing, all the time. And the poor people, they have nothing anyway. Nobody has anything to talk about. Nothing to be proud of in England. Everybody is leaving. Every day in the newspaper you read such-and-such has happened.

Prabhupāda: You are Englishman?

Maṅihāra: Yes.

Prabhāviṣṅu: It's a sinful reaction.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They expanded their empire. Where is that empire now? The expansion of empire began during Victoria's time. Huh? Victoria's time.

Hari-śauri: Even before that, though, because they were going out in the ships and... America and all.

Prabhupāda: During the first Elizabeth's time. That was the beginning.

Hari-śauri: Queen Elizabeth the First.

Maṅihāra: They went to America at that time. Pilgrim.

Prabhupāda: So what is the time of Elizabeth?

Prabhāviṣṅu: 1600 to 1700. That's four hundred years ago. Three, four hundred years.

Prabhupāda: So within four hundred years everything finished. [laughs] Everything built up and everything finished.

Prabhāviṣṅu: You said before it was all propaganda.

Maṅihāra: Now the Indians are coming from India, setting up big business in England. They're controlling big factories, business, so many mills, everything. In Manchester, where I come from...

Prabhupāda: There is agitation to drive away Indians.

Maṅihāra: Now they are trying to drive away. Because they know they have money. They are taking over.

Prabhupāda: Money and intelligence also. They can organize the English very nicely. And they're not extravagant. European and American, as soon as they get money they spend it. And Indians know how to save something. I saw in London, almost all Indians have got their own house. Maybe small house; it doesn't matter. But they have got their own quarters. Every Indian. And they're living very comfortably. Englishmen, local men, renting.

Maṅihāra: Big, big blocks.

Prabhupāda: And many Indians, they have come from Africa.

Maṅihāra: Kenya.

Prabhāviṣṅu: Uganda, especially.

Prabhupāda: Uganda. They got English citizenship. Now they cannot refuse them legally.

Maṅihāra: There's one group, the National Front group, they are trying to stop the citizenship. Because the government, they are saying, "Yes, we will make you citizens if you come here, get business." And they are fighting against this.

Prabhupāda: They are refusing citizenship to the children. Children born of Indians in England, naturally they should be citizens. But now they're refused.

Hari-śauri: They're making all of them get six-month... They only get... Any Indians, they give them six-month visas. That's partly the reason why India is now thinking to impose visa regulations on the British, on British people who come here.

Prabhupāda: Why they are doing that? Why not make world citizen? So much space. Let anyone go anywhere and live as he likes.

Hari-śauri: Nationalism.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Internationalism. Why it is a short-sighted view, "They cannot come here"?

Maṅihāra: "I and mine."

Prabhupāda: Everyone is God's son, and everything belongs to God. If one finds opportunity in some place, let him have it. I think if this is adopted by the United Nation, immediately the face of the world will change. The Chinese and the Indians, they are very expert. If they are given place, they can immediately turn that place into a nice food-producing village. They can do that. And you can produce anything usable from anywhere, according to the climate. Especially in America, the facility is very, very great. So many jungles. If the jungles are cut, the woods can be used for making house and the field can be used for producing food and milk, cows, everything. Around our New Vrindavan there are many places.

Hari-śauri: Both our... Pennsylvania farm has one hundred acres of woods.

Prabhupāda: Especially in America. There is enough place. And England also. There is enough place. They are not being utilized.

Maṅihāra: Even my father, he has one big house with some land, one or two acres of land. I put this to him, I told him, "Why you cannot just live simply? You have enough room for one cow, which is enough milk for you and for four people that live there," my two sisters, like that. One cow. "You can grow vegetables, you can have an apple tree, a pear tree. Like this you can have everything. You don't need to buy anything."

Prabhupāda: What does he say?

Maṅihāra: He says, "I'm a doctor."

Prabhupāda: "We shall purchase meat and eat."

Maṅihāra: "We need meat." He said, "We need meat." He's a doctor. He's saying he needs meat. I said, "I've not been eating meat for four years. There's nothing wrong with me."

Prabhupāda: And when there will be no vegetables, where you'll get meat? After all, you must have sufficient vegetables for eating by the cows. But if there is no vegetable, then where you'll get meat? Actually, in Europe it is being done, that there is drought. There is no rain. There is no grass.

Maṅihāra: All is brown.

Prabhupāda: Brown.

Mahāṁśa: The Minister of Endowments is here. The Minister of Endowments.

Prabhupāda: Yes. [minister enters] Thank you. Feeling all right?

Commissioner: Yes, sir. Yesterday, our chief minister's not here. He came this morning. I asked him to come there, but he has not been, he said. Some other ministers are wanting to come. I wondered if at four o'clock.

Prabhupāda: Four o'clock. All right.

Mahāṁśa: Today so early now? But your rest. It's time you take rest, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: I take rest up to four or half past four.

Mahāṁśa: Can you come at five o'clock?

Commissioner: At five o'clock there will be another program of our ministers.

Prabhupāda: So I will go. You send car?

Commissioner: Car, I will send one car. You can leave [indistinct].

Mahāṁśa: As soon as your car comes, we will leave.

Prabhupāda: You can give him that paper. Today is very nice report about our activities in the Sunday Chronicle. [indistinct background discussion as minister leaves] You can go up to the car. Go up to the car. So, I shall take little khicuṛi.

Hari-śauri: Just khicuṛi? Nothing else?

Prabhupāda: At half past one. Khicuṛi as he..., as she gave in the first, very thin, but same way. And that lemon chutney.

Maṅihāra: Lemon pickle.

Prabhupāda: Pickle, yes. Khicuṛi with potato and other vegetables...

Hari-śauri: Vegetables mixed in.

Prabhupāda: ...and ghee should be given separately, as I... Make it simplified. If I go to rest at two o'clock, then it will be possible to start. So see that it is quickly done. We shall go and come back by half past twelve. In Europe especially, if they do not change their mode of living, reject spiritual life, then gradually the whole situation will be dangerous. Means there will be no water supply.

Prabhāviṣṅu: Yes. I read in the newspaper just a few days ago that Britain is thinking of importing drinking water.

Prabhupāda: It is impractical. Is it possible to import drinking water for so many people?

Prabhāviṣṅu: No.

Prabhupāda: This is their utopian theory.

Prabhāviṣṅu: They are thinking that man will conquer over nature. That's their ideal, that man will become God.

Maṅihāra: Just before I left England... They have so many cows in the south of England, they were grazing. But because it was so hot, the grass was not growing. It was becoming very dry, and no new grass was growing because there was no rain. So then they had to move all the cows to the north of England. Thousands upon thousands of cows, they have to move in big lorries to the north of England, where there was some grass. And now in the north of England there is no grass, so they're going to have to move them to Scotland. It's costing so much money. And then the cows are going to become thin.

Prabhupāda: They are killing immaturely. Because they die, they cannot eat. They want to eat fresh, huh? They want to kill them alive.

Maṅihāra: Yes.

[pause]

Prabhupāda: You want?

So let us go down to the car. [end]