Morning Walk

Prabhupāda: [indistinct] ...nobody said that this meat-eating is bad; now I am saying. You see? So they do not know that it is bad. So they are not offenders.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: And now that you are saying, many people are stopping.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Somebody, they act... Just like illicit sex. They did not know that it is sinful. Now they are understanding. There was no good leader. Even the priests. In the Bible it is said, "Thou shall not kill." The priests never said, because they are meat-eaters. They themselves are meat-eaters. How they can say? "It is our tradition to eat meat." But how the common man will be educated? [break] You can give me the general prasāda today. I will taste. [break] When one become rich, he becomes lazy. What is called? "Leads to poverty"? Hmm? Luxury. "Luxury leads to poverty." So at one time one become very rich by hard work, and next generation gets the money for nothing, he spends it on luxury, and the third generation, poor. There are many families, in everywhere. In England, all these English men, in the beginning they worked very hard, expanding their empire and working. Then gradually, when they became Lord family, then luxury. Now they are poverty-stricken.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Their country is very poor now.

Prabhupāda: Very poor.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: All of Europe is poor.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Especially Holland and England. Holland and England and France, there was competition for colonization. The same colonization is there in America, Canada. The Frenchmen and... What is that?

Brahmānanda: The Dutchmen, they went to New York first. The Dutch, they first went to New York.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dhanañjaya: Peter Stuyvesant.

Gurukṛpa: The Scandinavian countries are not so poor. Denmark, Sweden...

Prabhupāda: They are industrious, and they have got resources.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: And they have developed more recently, I think. They were not colonizing.

Prabhupāda: No, the colonizing propaganda was amongst these three nation: France, English...

Dhanañjaya: Spanish and Portuguese. Spanish also.

Prabhupāda: Ah, that side, is, means Western side.

Gurukṛpa: Spanish went to South America.

Dhanañjaya: But the British used to say, "The sun never sets in the British empire."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that we knew in our childhood.

Jayādvaita: Now there's no empire for the sun to set on.

Prabhupāda: No. Now they have made it Commonwealth, keeping some scent, flavor, of British empire. Commonwealth.

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda? In those early days of colonization they were trying to sail to India by a quick route to get the spices, and it was the same time that Lord Caitanya's movement began. So is that just a coincidence that they were trying to go to India at the same time?

Prabhupāda: No. What it has got with Caitanya's movement?

Rāmeśvara: I heard... A devotee once told me that they were actually...

Prabhupāda: Oh, again, "heard it from devotee." [laughter] That is very dangerous. What Caitanya's movement has got with politics? Nothing. They drag Caitanya's movement, that. Many rascals do that. It has nothing to do with politics. It is simply spiritual. Rather, even the Muhammadans, they were very much respectful to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. They never took it as His, the political movement. Now it has become a fashion to take everything from political point of view. Just like in India, they are suspecting you as CIA. "CIA has come to become Vaiṣṅava." [laughter] [break] That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. If anyone remembers Kṛṣṅa by seeing somebody, that somebody is a Vaiṣṅava. He gives impetus to remember Kṛṣṅa. Therefore he is Vaiṣṅava. You stick to your principle, Vaiṣṅava. Then māyā will not touch. [break] Where is Prajāpati? He is not here?

Jayatīrtha: No.

Prabhupāda: He is going to...

Jayatīrtha: He's here, but he hasn't come on the walk. He's here in Vṛndāvana, but he hasn't come on the walk.

Prabhupāda: So, he is going to demonstrate anything? No.

Brahmānanda: Is he going to do any play?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Dances?

Jayatīrtha: I'm not sure.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: What is your desire for that, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Well I, I told him that "You make some play for showing here in Vṛndāvana."

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: It's all right that the women are dancing?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Śrutakīrti: You said plays. He could do plays.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Woman, as far as possible, should be no... That's not good.

Devotee (1): He spoke to me about it. He wants to do four performances here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Is that dancing he wants to do, or plays?

Devotee (1): Dancing.

Prabhupāda: With women?

Devotee (1): I don't know.

Prabhupāda: No.

Devotee (1): He has to do play?

Prabhupāda: So without woman there is no dancing? [laughter]

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: His whole troupe is women. The New York devotees, the Vaikuṅṭha Players, they have drama group.

Prabhupāda: So drama is good. Woman dancing will not be very much appreciated here. [break] ...scarcity of grains, and government will exact taxes for poor-feeding, and it will be used for their own purpose. These are the Kali symptoms. [break] ...stay in future.

Indian man (1): Are they doubting for themselves or for us?

Prabhupāda: For us.

Indian man (1): They should doubt for themselves.

Prabhupāda: No, apart from that, now, from logical point of view...

Indian man (1): Our movement, this movement, is Kṛṣṅa's own movement.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that they may not... I mean to say, mundane argument, we are selling these twenty lakhs of worth books monthly, so it is being spread all over the world. And those who are purchasing books, they are intelligent men. Then when they will read, how this movement will stop?

Indian man (1): It will never stop.

Prabhupāda: It will not stop. The books distribution is so important that it will continue to stay.

Satsvarūpa: They doubt that our devotees will stick, many times.

Prabhupāda: Never mind. We will create by distributing books new devotees. These devotee may be... But others will be created. And we are creating a new generation for becoming devotee at Dallas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Gurukula. Śrīla Prabhupāda? One thing in your lecture, you sometimes say that we spend ten lakhs a month just for maintaining. But I figured out we spend... You can say even fifty lakhs, because ten lakhs is very conservative.

Prabhupāda: No, so far I have heard.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: No, I... From what I have seen, we spend...

Rāmeśvara: Ten lakhs is just three or four temples.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Rāmeśvara: Los Angeles, New York, maybe Toronto, San Francisco, Dallas, that's all. Ten lakhs right there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Every month.

Prabhupāda: So what is the actual expenditure?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Oh, it must be...

Rāmeśvara: Four times that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: At least fifty lakhs.

Rāmeśvara: At least fifty lakhs each month.

Prabhupāda: Then how you are getting money? If you are selling only twenty lakhs' worth books, how you are spending forty lakhs?

Rāmeśvara: We are selling more books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: More than twenty lakhs.

Prabhupāda: So give me, what is called, consensus.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: The idea is the Book Fund, if the book is sold, it's sold at a profit. So although you may be getting only twenty or thirty lakhs, much more is being collected. That is the point.

Prabhupāda: So why did you not correct me in the meeting? [laughter]

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Well, I didn't... [laughter] Even ten lakhs is a very impressive figure.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ten lakhs expenditure, but twenty lakhs collection.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: But I think now we should say fifty lakhs expenditure and...

Prabhupāda: One crore.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: One crore collection. That will be a nice target. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...getting more price for their land on account of the temple.

Indian man (1): Yes, Prabhupāda Mahārāja, they are just started asking double.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But who is going to purchase it?

Indian man (1): Ah, we are not.

Prabhupāda: The purchaser is ourself only.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: What about that land... [break]

Prabhupāda: ...not very nice last time. But this time also I am not eating, but I am working nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Not eating?

Prabhupāda: No. This is improvement—no eating, but working nicely.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Like the six Gosvāmīs.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that will be great fortune.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: You will save your expenditure, and you will get your work.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: But the devotees of Lord Caitanya, they liked to see Him take prasādam. We don't... We're not that interested to save. [break]

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra, janma sārthaka kari [Cc Ādi 9.41].

[One who has taken his birth as a human being in the land of India [Bhārata-varṣa] should make his life successful and work for the benefit of all other people.]

"First of all, you become perfect." If you are a devil, you cannot do it. The devil and divine. Divine means spiritually advanced, and devil means materially advanced. And because we are manufacturing divine, the devils are afraid of it. The devils do not like this movement. [someone drives by:] Jaya. So just see, automatically they are offering respect. That means we are infecting them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: I was noticing that yesterday on the parade. Everyone was offering respects.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Vṛndāvana after all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: I think that is a benefit spiritually...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: ...to offer you respects.

Bhagavān: In Bombay, even those poor fisherwomen...

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are offering respects. Hare Kṛṣṅa. So we have to create divine, because the world is full of devils.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: But we have to be divine ourselves.

Prabhupāda: Unless you become divine, how you can convert others to divine? If you are devil, you will convert others to become devil, that's all. [break] ...most beautiful. [break]

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: Presided over by Aryamā, the planet of trees.

Prabhupāda: Planet... Not planet. Amongst the trees. So who will prepare nice foodstuff for the governor?

Indian man (1): Yes, Prabhupāda Mahārāja, very nice prasāda.

Prabhupāda: Who is preparing?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: We've given the list to the chief cook.

Indian man (1): My wife is there, and then Pālikā, Devaśakti, your sister. Everybody is there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Do it very nicely. Now it will be examined who can cook very nice. If they say, "Oh, it is very nice," then good certificate.

Indian man (1): Prabhupāda, everybody is praising prasādam.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Everybody praising. Now the governor should praise. Then it will be praising. We can praise ourself, mutual praising society. You are very good, and you say I am very good, that's all. "Mr. Such-and-such is very good," and another man says, "Mr. Such-and-such very good." That is mutual praising society. Others must praise. Outsider must praise. [break]

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: ...question about the philosophy? It's about the expansions. We've been reading the Caitanya-caritāmṛta about Nityānanda Rāma, about the expansions of Lord Nityānanda, Saṅkarṣaṅa. And we were having a little difficulty trying to understand exactly the order in which He expands Himself. We understand that Kṛṣṅa expands as Balarāma. And then...

Prabhupāda: Then again Balarāma expands as Saṅkarṣaṅa. And Saṅkarṣaṅa expands. In this way, expansion goes on. Where is the difficulty?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: You mention two Saṅkarṣaṅas.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hundred thousand Saṅkarṣaṅa. Do you mean to say that this universal management is so easy thing?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: No.

Prabhupāda: You cannot manage a small temple. [laughter] And Kṛṣṅa has to manage such a vast universal affairs. So this requires brain and expansion. You, when you are enquired, asked, "Why it is not done?" "I told him. I told him." He says, "I told him." Kṛṣṅa does not say. He expands immediately and does the work.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Hmm, does it Himself.

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṅa. Not that "I told him, and he did not do. I am free. That's all." [laughs] Expansion of order, and nobody is doing—not like that. One has to see whether it is done. That is Kṛṣṅa. Not that I have told the another man and sleep myself. And Kṛṣṅa does everything in such a way that is perfect. Pūrṅam idam [Īśopaniṣad, Invocation]. Nobody can find out any defect. That is Kṛṣṅa, all-perfect. [break]

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: ...in the Vaikuṅṭhas, surrounding Nārāyaṅa is Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṅa, Pradyumna and Aniruddha?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: So five are present. Pañca-tattva.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: Prabhupāda, you say that Kṛṣṅa is pūrṅam, the complete whole. So in the material world, if something is very great, even though we may not like it, like people may not like the United States, but still, they have to admit that it is a very great country in comparison to theirs. So in the material world, things which are great, at least we have to admit that to some extent they are great. But Kṛṣṅa is everything. So how is it that people are saying that He's so tiny that He may even be an ordinary man? How can they be so illusioned to think like that? Kṛṣṅa is everything. How can they ignore Him?

Prabhupāda: Illusioned because you do not know what Kṛṣṅa says. That is your fault. Kṛṣṅa says, "You do this," but you do not do that. Kṛṣṅa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ [Bg 9.34]. Who is doing that? Just take a census, who is thinking of Kṛṣṅa. Hardly you will find one in million. So who is carrying out the order of Kṛṣṅa? Nobody is doing.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: You are. But Śrīla Prabhupāda, how is it that Kṛṣṅa is everything, completely...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: ...and still, people completely can ignore Kṛṣṅa.

Prabhupāda: That is... Because Kṛṣṅa is everything, his independence is also Kṛṣṅa. The man's independence is also Kṛṣṅa. So he is misusing his independence. Kṛṣṅa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṅaṁ vraja [Bg 18.66]. He is using his independence not to do this. Therefore he is suffering. [greeting someone:] Hare Kṛṣṅa. Jaya.

[break] ...says, mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg 15.15]:

[I am seated in everyone's heart, and from Me come remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas am I to be known; indeed I am the compiler of Vedānta, and I am the knower of the Vedas.]

"From Me there is remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness." So why Kṛṣṅa is interested to induce one to forget? Why?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Because they want to.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That independence. So he wants to forget. Kṛṣṅa says, "Yes, you do it at your risk."

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: And suffer the consequences.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: Is it the spirit soul which is desiring, or is it just karma?

Prabhupāda: The desiring... After desiring, there is karma. First of all willing.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: That is the soul.

Prabhupāda: Thinking, feeling, willing. What you think, you feel, and then you will, and Kṛṣṅa sanctions, that "Do it."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: So is the thinking material?

Prabhupāda: Material and spiritual also.

Passer-by: Haribol! Hari-hari-bol!

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṅa. Just like this machine can be used for material and spiritual purpose. When it is being used for spiritual, it is spiritual. Otherwise, material.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Everything is Kṛṣṅa's energy.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: So it can be used in either way.

Prabhupāda: Either way, yes.

Devotee (2): So our thinking and our feeling and our willing is the same. It can be either used in...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: But some energy of Kṛṣṅa's is not..., cannot be used either way.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Everything can be used. What is the example, it cannot be used?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Well, I was thinking of Kṛṣṅa's internal energy.

Prabhupāda: No, internal energy, when it is perverted, that is material energy, when it is covered. Just like the sun. When it is covered, it is called cloud.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: I was thinking of just like Kṛṣṅa's pure devotees like Mother Yaśodā. They are always eternally remaining.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. [break] ...strongly warm, then you do not become cool very soon. You must be strongly warm, fire temperature. Then you will act as fire.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: And the process for heating up the fire?

Prabhupāda: You keep yourself with fire.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Jaya. That is you.

Prabhupāda: Don't go outside the fire. Then you keep yourself warm. And temperature increase exactly like fire. That is required. That is the motto of our Back to Godhead: "Godhead is light, nescience is darkness. Where there is Godhead there is no nescience." That is the beginning of our movement. Keep Kṛṣṅa always. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām [Bg 9.14].

[Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion.]

Then you remain Kṛṣṅa-ized. And as soon as you give it up, then think of devils. This is going on. [break]

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: ...kīrtana going twenty-four hours a day. In some of our larger temples is it also advisable?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. This is advisable for everywhere. Batches. What is the difficulty?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Because the whole atmosphere becomes spiritualized, purified.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The same thing: keep always with fire and you remain high temperature. And if you ignite fire and again pour water and again ignite, again pour, then what is the benefit? If you ignite fire, keep it fire; don't pour water. But generally they do that, that "Now I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṅa, I am free from all sinful activities. Now again let me do it, and again I shall chant."

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: No progress.

Prabhupāda: No progress. Nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ [Padma Purāṅa, Brahma-khaṅḍa]. This is the greatest offense. [break] [end]