Bhagavad-gītā 2.12

Nitāi: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. [devotees repeat] [leads chanting of verse, etc.]

na tv evāhaṁ jātu nāsaṁ na tvaṁ neme janādhipāḥ na caiva na bhaviṣyāmaḥ sarve vayam ataḥ param [Bg 2.12]

[Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.]

[break]

Hṛdayānanda: [leads chanting of synonyms in Spanish] [break]

Prabhupāda: Read the translation.

Hṛdayānanda: [translation in Spanish]

[01:37]

Prabhupāda: [translated into Spanish throughout lecture]

na tv evāhaṁ jātu nāsaṁ na tvaṁ neme janādhipāḥ na caiva na bhaviṣyāmaḥ sarve vayam ataḥ param [Bg 2.12]

So Kṛṣṅa began His teaching to Arjuna, chastising him that "You do not know anything; still, you are talking like a learned man." This is the fault of a person without any spiritual knowledge. Every man in this material world is almost without any spiritual knowledge. Still, they are proud of their learning, their knowledge, their degrees. This is going on. When Sanātana Gosvāmī approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he first of all presented himself as a person without knowledge. Sanātana Gosvāmī was coming of a very brāhmaṅa, aristocratic family. He was very learned scholar in Sanskrit and Urdu; still, he presented himself before Caitanya Mahāprabhu as a foolish man. So actually that is the position. He said, grāmya-vyavahāre paṅḍita, satya māni, āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni [Cc Madhya 20.100].

[I do not know what is beneficial for me or what is detrimental. Nonetheless, in ordinary dealings people consider me a learned scholar, and I am also thinking of myself as such.]

He said that "These common men say that I am very learned paṅḍita, but I am such a rascal, I do not know what I am."

So this is the position for everyone. You ask any learned scientist, professor, "Who are you?" He'll say, "I am Mr. John." He'll say, "I am Mr. John, I am American," or "I am Mexican," "I am Indian," like that. So this is ignorance. Nobody is this body. That is the first lesson of spiritual knowledge. So long we identify with this body, that "I am Mr. Such-and-such," "I am American," "I am Indian," this is all ignorance. When you actually understand that you are not this body—therefore you are not American, nor Indian, nor Mexican, but you are spirit soul—then your spiritual education begins. And that is... In Sanskrit it is called ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am spirit soul." Spiritual... Spirit soul has no connection with this material world. When one understands fully this, I mean to say, fact, that spirit soul is different from this material world, then he's actually learned. In that stage he's called situated in brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. The symptom of brahma-bhūtaḥ is brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg 18.54].

[And of all yogīs, he who always abides in Me with great faith, worshiping Me in transcendental loving service, is most intimately united with Me in yoga and is the highest of all.]

As soon as one becomes self-realized, he becomes jubilant, jolly. So long one identifies with this body, he is unhappy, full of anxiety.

So Bhagavad-gītā begins with this point, that one should know that he is not this material body. That knowledge is lacking at the present moment throughout the whole world. Yes. Everyone is identifying with this body like the animals. Therefore Kṛṣṅa chastised Arjuna that "You have got animalistic concept of life, and still you're speaking like a very learned scholar. No learned scholar laments on account of this body." It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg 2.13].

[As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change.]

Dhīra... Dhīra means one who is sober by education. He is not disturbed. Just like when a man dies, his relatives lament, cry, "My father is gone. My father is gone. My father is no more," or "My son is no more." Anyway, they lament like that. But if he is little sober, he can understand, he can study, that "I am lamenting, 'My father is gone,' 'My son is gone,' but he's not gone. He's lying on the bed or on the floor. Then why I am speaking 'gone'?" If some friend asks him, "Why you are lamenting, 'My father is gone,' 'My son is gone'? He's lying here," but still he will say, "No, he's not. He may be lying there, but he's gone." That is puzzle. He's lying there and gone? What is this contradiction? That is the point to understand about the soul. The relative is lamenting, crying, "My father is gone." That means he never saw his father; he saw the body only. But at the time of death of his father he understands that this father is not this body; that is soul.

So when we come to this understanding that every one of us, we may be in different body, but we are not this body, we are spirit soul, so that time our actual knowledge begins. Now Kṛṣṅa is describing what is the nature of that soul. He says... Whenever we sit down together we say "I," "you" and "they," first person, second person and third person, "I," "you," or "he." There cannot be more than these three. I can say "I," I can say "you," and I can say "he." So Kṛṣṅa says in this verse that na tu eva ahaṁ jātu: "Either I, you, or he, none of us ever born." Because we are not this body, the birth takes place of the body, not of the soul. The soul is described here that he does not take birth. It is not that he was not existing in the past; now he has taken birth. It is not like that. It is not like that, that the soul did not exist in the past; now he's existing. There are some philosophers, they think like that, that the living symptom was not existing before, and by the combination of matter the living force is there. But that is not the fact. The living being is there; therefore the life symptoms are there in the body. Therefore when a man dies, because we do not know about the living force, we cry that "My father, my son, has gone."

So we should acquire knowledge from the authority. Kṛṣṅa is the authority. He says that "All of us—you, Me, and all the others who have come to join this fighting—it is not that they did not exist in the past. They existed, we existed, all, in the past; we are existing now; and after so-called death, or after quitting this body, we shall still exist." Now, the question will be, "How I shall exist, either as American, Indian, or something else?" So that is very intelligent question. First of all, we have to understand that I, you, every one of us existed in the past, so how I existed in the past... [child crying] [aside: This child should be...] ...and how I shall exist in future? So past is past; that is gone. Now I am existing as a human being, it is my duty to understand how I shall exist in future. That is intelligence. If we do not prepare for the next life, then we are animals. Just like the human society, there is education. The father gives education to the child, thinking about his future. The cats and dogs, they do not give any education, neither they know what is the meaning of education. That is the difference between human being and animal. So if we are not educated in the matter of understanding what is our future, then we are no better than the animal. Yes.

That education we can have in this human form of life. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

yānti deva-vratā devān pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām [Bg 9.25]

[Those who worship the demigods will take birth among the demigods; those who worship ghosts and spirits will take birth among such beings; those who worship ancestors go to the ancestors; and those who worship Me will live with Me.]

The process is there. You can prepare your next life in this life. Just like they are attempting to go to the moon planet, but the fact is they could not go there. Why they could not go there? The reason is that wherever you go, you must be fit for that place. Even in this planet, suppose somebody goes from one place to another place, he has to make himself fit to go there. He must know what is the temperature there. Accordingly, he'll take his dress. Then he'll have to take permission of the state, visa, passport. So many things you have to arrange, then you can go. Not that all of a sudden anyone can come to your country, Mexico, without arrangement. Similarly, if you want to go to the higher planetary system, then you have to make your arrangement in this life. You cannot go to the moon planet by force because you have got a teeny airplane. That is not possible. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, yānti deva-vratā devān [Bg 9.25]. A man can go to the higher planetary system when he is preparing himself to go there.

So there are millions and trillions of planets. Wherever you want, you can go. The descriptions are there in the śāstra. But there is another description, the kingdom of God. That kingdom of God is there beyond this material sky. So we have to take information where that spiritual world is there. You can have it from Vedic literature. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg 8.20]. There is another nature, the spiritual nature, which is beyond this material nature. That material nature... Vyaktāvyakta means some portion is manifested and some portion is not manifested. And we get information from Bhagavad-gītā that the spiritual nature is beyond this manifested and nonmanifested cosmic situation. So Kṛṣṅa says, the supreme authority says, mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām [Bg 9.25].

[Those who worship the demigods will take birth among the demigods; those who worship ghosts and spirits will take birth among such beings; those who worship ancestors go to the ancestors; and those who worship Me will live with Me.]

If somebody cultivates Kṛṣṅa consciousness, he can go there. It is not difficult; simply you have to change your mode of life.

To become Kṛṣṅa conscious means to be pure in the original spiritual existence. We are pure as Brahman, as spirit soul, but because we have contaminated these material modes of nature, our consciousness is now different. So on account of different consciousness, there are three classes of men. One class of men is very intelligent; one class of men, very passionate; and one class of men, fools and rascals. So in order to understand your promotion to the spiritual world, you have to become first-class man. First-class man means brāhmaṅa. A brāhmaṅa means he is truthful, he is self-controlled, he is simple, he is tolerant... In this way there are nine qualification to become first-class man. And to become first-class man, the preliminary qualification is that you should not become sinful.

So instead of becoming sinful, to become pious, you simply follow these four regulative principles. The first principle is illicit sex. That is forbidden. Sex is not forbidden, but illicit sex is forbidden. That is not very difficult. Everyone wants. That is the necessity of the body, that sex. As we want to eat, as we want to sleep, similarly, there is sex desire. But if you want to become first-class man, then don't have illicit sex. Except marriage, do not have sex. The human society... Therefore, human society, there is marriage. There is no marriage in the dog society. So therefore, sex life within marriage and regulative principle, that is not prohibited. That means anyone who follows these rules and regulation, he becomes purified and pious. Without becoming purified and pious, you cannot understand God. It is said therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā,

yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṅya-karmaṅām te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ [Bg 7.28]

[Persons who have acted piously in previous lives and in this life, whose sinful actions are completely eradicated and who are freed from the duality of delusion, engage themselves in My service with determination.]

A person who is completely free from sinful activities, such person can become a devotee, a lover of God.

So this Kṛṣṅa consciousness movement is teaching to the human society how to become purified. There is no such restriction that "This man can be purified; that man cannot be." No, there is nothing like that. Everyone can be purified if he desires to be so. So immediately we may not be able to purify. As it is prescribed—no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication—it may not be possible, because those who are accustomed, it is difficult to give up. Therefore the process is given very simple: "Chant Hare Kṛṣṅa." So purification is absolute. That is necessary. Without purification, you cannot understand God. But the method we are prescribing... Not we are prescribing; it is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's prescription. We are simply propagating that "Chant Hare Kṛṣṅa." Yes.

So I am very glad to see that you Mexican young boys, girls, ladies and gentlemen are coming here and joining the chanting Hare Kṛṣṅa mantra. So I request you to continue this procedure. Please come here, join this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṅa mantra, and take prasādam and go home. And surely you'll be purified and qualified for going back to home, back to Godhead.

Thank you very much.

Hṛdayānanda: [in Spanish] All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. [devotees offer obeisances] Do you want to take questions, Prabhupada?

Prabhupāda: Heh? [break]

Hṛdayānanda: [translating from Spanish] ...one has to become pious in order to understand God. So he is asking what type of piety is required in order to understand God.

Prabhupāda: That we have already said: no illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating, no intoxication.

Hṛdayānanda: [translating question] He wants to know if within marriage it is possible to achieve perfection.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Human being is meant for marriage, not the cats and dogs. If you can remain without marriage, without sex life, that is very good, but if you cannot, then marry and be gentleman and remain peaceful.

Hṛdayānanda: [translating] If one can achieve Kṛṣṅa consciousness outside the temple?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You have to follow the rules and regulation, that's all.

Hṛdayānanda: He said, "In terms of the spiritual world, what is it like, and what are the activities of Kṛṣṅa there?"

Prabhupāda: The same activities. Simply there is no sinful activity, that's all.

Hṛdayānanda: [translating] When one breaks the principles, can Kṛṣṅa forgive him?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṅa can forgive you once, twice—not regularly. [laughter]

Hṛdayānanda: [translating] Sometimes people come join the temple and follow the four principles, and even so, there appear to be some fault in their character in terms of their treatment of other people who come to the temple. So he says that he feels undoubtedly that by following the process gradually the defects will be eliminated, but is there any way to more rapidly...

Prabhupāda: If a man comes, follows the regulative principle even for some time and again he falls down, so, so long he has followed, that asset is permanent. Anything spiritual asset, that is never lost. So little, little, little, when it is complete, cent per cent, then you become liberated. Spiritual asset is never lost. So even a person comes to the temple and follows the regulative principle for some time—again he falls down—he's not loser; he's gainer. Others, who do not take this lesson and outside they may perform his so-called duties very perfectly, he's loser. So at least for some time let every one of you come here and follow the restriction. And if you become perfect, is all right. But even if you go away, whatever you have done, that is your permanent asset. That is stated in the Bhagavad... Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt [Bg 2.40].

[In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear.]

And even that little asset can help you to become free from the greatest danger. There are many examples. They are stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Therefore, in this human form of life, at least we shall try to get some spiritual asset.

So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, even such person falls down, he is given chance next life to take birth in very rich, aristocratic family or in a very pious brāhmaṅa family. So little spiritual asset in this human form of life will at least guarantee your next life in a very nice family. But without spiritual life there is no guarantee whether you are going to become human being or cat or dog.

That's all right? [end]