Morning Walk

Prabhupāda: But if one cannot execute in such a way, he can take little fruits. That's all.

Dr. Patel: [laughs] Shall we?

[break] ...Śṛnu me paramaṁ vacaḥ [Bg 10.1].

[The Supreme Lord said: My dear friend, mighty-armed Arjuna, listen again to My supreme word, which I shall impart to you for your benefit and which will give you great joy.]

Prabhupāda: Bhūya. He has already spoken so many important things; still, He wants to give information of further important part.

Dr. Patel: Yat te 'haṁ priyamāṅāya vakṣyāmi hita-kāmyayā [Bg 10.1].

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Because these things are to be spoken to My dear devotees, priyamāṅāya, for the special benefit of the devotees, not for the ordinary man." Bhūya eva mahā-bāho [Bg 10.1]. Mahā-bāho, this word is used, "mighty-armed," who is very strong in devotional service. Mahā-bāho. Bhūya eva mahā-bāho śṛṅu me paramaṁ vacaḥ." Mahā-bāho: because you are My great devotee, therefore I am speaking further, very important subject matter." Next line?

Dr. Patel:

na me viduḥ sura-ganaḥ prabhavaṁ na maharṣayaḥ aham ādir hi devānāṁ maharṣīṅāṁ ca sarvaśaḥ [Bg 10.2]

[Neither the hosts of demigods nor the great sages know My origin, for, in every respect, I am the source of the demigods and the sages.]

Prabhupāda: Yes. Even the... Na me viduḥ sura-gaṅāḥ. Sura-gaṅāḥ means demigods, and what to speak of the rascals? How the rascals, simply by little educational qualification, can understand Kṛṣṅa?

Dr. Patel: Prabhavaṁ, the original, He said. Prabhavaṁ.

Prabhupāda: No. Prabhavaṁ means influence, influence. Prabhāva.

Dr. Patel: Aham ādir hi devānāṁ maharṣīṅāṁ ca sarvaśaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Now, just try to understand this. Na me viduḥ sura-gaṅāḥ [Bg 10.2]. [Hindi] ...demigods, big, big demigods, they cannot understand Him. How the rascals with little education can understand? This is the meaning. Na me viduḥ sura-gaṅāḥ prabhavaṁ. How much influence... The maharṣayaḥ, big, big saintly ṛṣis also, they cannot understand. Aham ādir hi devānām. Devānām means the first devas: the Brahmā, Viṣṅu, Maheśvara. So Viṣṅu is He Himself. Even Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā, they do not know. Devānām.

Dr. Patel:

yo mām ajam anādiṁ ca vetti loka-maheśvaram asamūḍhaḥ sa martyeṣu sarva-papaiḥ pramucyate [Bg 10.3]

[Neither the hosts of demigods nor the great sages know My origin, for, in every respect, I am the source of the demigods and the sages.]

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the understanding of Kṛṣṅa. Yo mām ajam. Ajam. "Because Kṛṣṅa appears as born of Vasudeva and Devaki..." That is mūrkha. He appears. He appears, ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san, sambhavāmi [Bg 4.6].

[Although I am unborn and My transcendental body never deteriorates, and although I am the Lord of all sentient beings, I still appear in every millennium in My original transcendental form.]

That is His extraordinary power.

[aside:] Aiye...

But when one understands that He is aja, there is no birth of Kṛṣṅa... Aja, and...?

Dr. Patel: Maheśvaram.

Prabhupāda: Maheśvaram, mahā īśvaram. There are īśvaras, but parameśvara, or mahā-īśvara, that is Kṛṣṅa.

Dr. Patel: Shall I read further?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel:

buddhir jñānam asammohaḥ kṣamā satyaṁ damaḥ śamaḥ sukhaṁ duḥkhaṁ bhavo 'bhāvo bhayaṁ cābhayam eva ca

ahiṁsā samatā tuṣṭis tapo dānaṁ yaśo 'yaśaḥ bhavanti bhāvā bhūtānāṁ matta eva pṛthag-vidhāḥ [Bg 10.4-5]

[Intelligence, knowledge, freedom from doubt and delusion, forgiveness, truthfulness, self-control and calmness, pleasure and pain, birth, death, fear, fearlessness, nonviolence, equanimity, satisfaction, austerity, charity, fame and infamy are created by Me alone.]

Prabhupāda: Yes. All these good qualities, they are also coming from Him. Matta eva.

Dr. Patel: Good and bad, all qualities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no bad. There is nothing bad, but...

Dr. Patel: Bhava abhāva bhayaṁ ca abhayaṁ ca.

Prabhupāda: Bhayaṁ ca abhayaṁ ca, contradictory, yes.

Dr. Patel: Contradictory qualities.

Prabhupāda: That means all contradictions can be adjusted in Kṛṣṅa.

Dr. Patel:

maharṣayaḥ sapta pūrve catvāro manavas tathā mad-bhāvā mānasā jātā yeṣāṁ loke imāḥ prajāḥ [Bg 10.6]

[The seven great sages and before them the four other great sages and the Manus [progenitors of mankind] are born out of My mind, and all creatures in these planets descend from them.]

Prabhupāda: Yes. "The whole prajā, population, they are born of Me."

Dr. Patel:

etāṁ vibhūtiṁ yogaṁ ca mama yo vetti tattvataḥ so 'vikalpena yogena yujyate nātra saṁśayaḥ [Bg 10.7]

[He who knows in truth this glory and power of Mine engages in unalloyed devotional service; of this there is no doubt.]

Prabhupāda: Yes, tattvataḥ, to understand Kṛṣṅa tattvataḥ.

Dr. Patel: Rightly.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel:

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ [Bg 10.8]

[I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who know this perfectly engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts.]

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the actually essence of Bhagavad-gītā. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate: "I am the origin of everything." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo and mattaḥ sarvam. Sarvam means including Brahmā, Viṣṅu, Maheśvara. Sarvam. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate iti matvā. One who understands this. Bhajante. So just... The bhajana is for whom? Iti matvā. When one understands that Kṛṣṅa is the origin of everything, even the original demigods, Brahmā, Viṣṅu, Maheśvara, when one understands perfectly this thing, then his bhajana is perfect.

Dr. Patel: Budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ.

Prabhupāda: Bhāva, bhāva. Bhāva means...

Chandobhai: All the emotions, feelings.

Prabhupāda: ...love, feelings, feelings of love, "Oh, Kṛṣṅa is so great."

Dr. Patel: Mac-cittā mad-gata-prāṅāḥ.

Prabhupāda: And that is being described.

Dr. Patel: Bodhayantaḥ parasparam, kathayantaś ca māṁ nityaṁ tuṣyanti ca ramanti ca [Bg 10.9].

[The thoughts of My pure devotees dwell in Me, their lives are surrendered to Me, and they derive great satisfaction and bliss enlightening one another and conversing about Me.]

Prabhupāda: Ramanti ca, yes. So instead of talking of Kṛṣṅa, they talk of politics, sociology, all nonsense. Simply waste of time.

Dr. Patel: Mad-gata-prāṅāḥ.

Prabhupāda: Mad-gata... One cannot talk of Kṛṣṅa unless he is kṛṣṅa-gata-prāṅāḥ. Kṛṣṅa-gata-prāṅāḥ. Just like your loveable objects, you cannot forget even for a moment, similarly, one who has developed real love for Kṛṣṅa, he cannot do without thinking of Kṛṣṅa, without talking of Kṛṣṅa, without acting for Kṛṣṅa. Mad-gata-prāṅāḥ.

Dr. Patel:

teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ taṁ yena mām upayānti te [Bg 10.10]

[To those who are constantly devoted and worship Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me.]

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. So therefore one who has taken to this... Sometimes these Māyāvādīs rascals say that the bhakti is meant for the less intelligent class of men. So how he can be less intelligent? Kṛṣṅa says, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam. So Kṛṣṅa personally gives you intelligence. So how he can be less intelligent?

Chandobhai: He gives intelligence.

Dr. Patel: That dadami buddhi-yogam.

Prabhupāda: Ah. And what kind of buddhi-yoga?

Chandobhai: "By which you can reach Me."

Prabhupāda: Yes. By which he can go back to home, back to Godhead. That kind of buddhi-yoga.

Dr. Patel: That comes later on.

Prabhupāda: Not this buddhi-yoga, how to exploit the whole world and become Hiraṅyakaśipu.

Dr. Patel:

teṣām evānukampārtham aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ nāśayāmy ātma-bhāva-stho jñāna-dīpena bhāsvatā [Bg 10.11]

[Out of compassion for them, I, dwelling in their hearts, destroy with the shining lamp of knowledge the darkness born of ignorance.]

Prabhupāda: Teṣām. Who are those, teṣām? Not all.

Chandobhai: Bhaktas.

Prabhupāda: Satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, teṣām. It is a special favor for them. Teṣām evānukampārtham. So if Kṛṣṅa dissipates ignorance from the heart of a person, how he can be less intelligent? If somebody is guided by the most perfect intellect..., intellectual, then how he can be less intelligent? So these Māyāvādīs' accusation that bhakti is meant for the less intelligent class and jñāna is meant for higher class of men, so this accusation is refuted, that "No, don't think that the devotees are less intelligent, because I am guiding them."

Dr. Patel: Nāśayāmy ātma-bhāva-stho, aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ. Tamaḥ nāśayāmy ātma-bhāva-stho.

Prabhupāda: Tamaḥ. No more ignorance, darkness. So how a devotee can be in darkness, in ignorance? This is refuted.

Dr. Patel: Now arjuna uvāca.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel:

arjuna uvāca. paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān puruṣaṁ śaśvataṁ divyam ādi-devam ajaṁ vibhum [Bg 10.12]

[Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Brahman, the ultimate, the supreme abode and purifier, the Absolute Truth and the eternal divine person. You are the primal God, transcendental and original, and You are the unborn and all-pervading beauty. All the great sages such as Nārada, Asita, Devala, and Vyāsa proclaim this of You, and now You Yourself are declaring it to me.]

Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore, what is Kṛṣṅa is to be understood from Arjuna. This is paramparā system. Paramparā system. Arjuna talked with Kṛṣṅa personally. So his experience is first hand. So how this rascal can imagine of Kṛṣṅa that "Kṛṣṅa is like this, Kṛṣṅa is like that"? If you actually reading Bhagavad-gītā as Arjuna understood Kṛṣṅa, you have to accept it. This is called paramparā. So what is the experience of Arjuna? Arjuna said, "You are..., you are the Supreme Person, puruṣam. You are not female. You are not prakṛti. You are puruṣa, śaśvata, and the original, śaśvatam, eternally." Not that, the Māyāvādīs, "Now impersonal..." Yes, read one line. That is sufficient.

Dr. Patel: That same line. Puruṣaṁ śaśvataṁ divyam ādi-devam ajaṁ vibhum.

Prabhupāda: Ādi. Yes. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ. Ādi-puruṣam, He is the original person. Person. He is not imperson. Puruṣam is not imperson. Brahman is imperson, but Para-brahman is not imperson. So that is Kṛṣṅa. So therefore it is called paraḥ, param, Brahman realization. Athāto brahma jijñāsā: "You inquire about Brahman."

Chandobhai: All-pervading, vibhum.

Prabhupāda: Vibhum, yes, all-pervading. Just like the same example: the sun. The sun is all-pervading by sunshine, but still, sunshine is not important as the sun globe. This is to be understood. Kṛṣṅa, Kṛṣṅa... Let us understand one line. Para-brahman. Brahman, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma [Chāndogya Upaniṣad 3.14.1].

[Everything, both matter and spirit, is non-different from the Supreme Personality of Godhead who is the Supreme Brahman.]

But they are Para-brahman. Īśvara, everyone is īśvara. That's all right. But not everyone Parameṣvara.

Chandobhai: Puruṣottama.

Prabhupāda: Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṅaḥ [Bs 5.1].

[Kṛṣṅa who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes.]

Dr. Patel: Everyone is puruṣa, but not puruṣottama.

Prabhupāda: So paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma [Bg 10.12].

[Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Brahman, the ultimate, the supreme abode and purifier, the Absolute Truth and the eternal divine person. You are the primal God, transcendental and original, and You are the unborn and all-pervading beauty. All the great sages such as Nārada, Asita, Devala, and Vyāsa proclaim this of You, and now You Yourself are declaring it to me.]

Dhāma. Dhāma means resting place. Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni [Bg 9.4].

[By Me, in My unmanifested form, this entire universe is pervaded. All beings are in Me, but I am not in them.]

Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma, and pavitram. Pavitra means You are not contaminated by these material modes. Pavitraṁ paramam, supreme pavitra. Now the question is that if Kṛṣṅa is paraṁ pavitra... Now sometimes they criticize that "Kṛṣṅa danced with the other girls. So how He can be contaminated?"

Dr. Patel: Non-contaminated.

Prabhupāda: Not contaminated. Apāpa-vidham. As it is said, apāpa vidham aśnaviram. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṅa. Aśnaviram means not material body.

[aside:] Hare Kṛṣṅa. Aśnaviram apāpa-vidham.

Chandobhai: Kavir manīṣiḥ paribhuḥ svayambhūḥ...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is being explained, yes. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg 10.12].

Dr. Patel: Puruṣaṁ śaśvataṁ divyam ādi-devam ajaṁ vibhum.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Divyam. Divyam means spiritual. Tapo divyam. Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1].

[Lord Ṛṣabhadeva told His sons: My dear boys, of all the living entities who have accepted material bodies in this world, one who has been awarded this human form should not work hard day and night simply for sense gratification, which is available even for dogs and hogs that eat stool. One should engage in penance and austerity to attain the divine position of devotional service. By such activity, one's heart is purified, and when one attains this position, he attains eternal, blissful life, which is transcendental to material happiness and which continues forever.]

That is the instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva: "My dear boys, you engage yourself in tapasya." Now, what kind of tapasya? Tapo divyam: for spiritual realization. Now, materialists, there are big, big scientists, big, big archeologists and so on, so on, they are also undergoing tapo. Without tapasya, nobody can become eminent. So they are also undergoing tapasya. Suppose one who has manufactured this atomic bomb. This is also tapasya. But not this kind of tapasya. Tapo divyam, for understanding Kṛṣṅa. To understand Kṛṣṅa, that tapasya required.

Dr. Patel: Shall I go further?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel:

āhus tvām ṛṣayaḥ sarve devarṣir nāradas tathā asito devalo vyāsaḥ svayaṁ caiva bravīṣi me [Bg 10.13]

[Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Brahman, the ultimate, the supreme abode and purifier, the Absolute Truth and the eternal divine person. You are the primal God, transcendental and original, and You are the unborn and all-pervading beauty. All the great sages such as Nārada, Asita, Devala, and Vyāsa proclaim this of You, and now You Yourself are declaring it to me.]

Prabhupāda: Now, people may say that "Arjuna was Kṛṣṅa's friend, so he is eulogizing Kṛṣṅa like anything." Therefore he is giving evidence that āhus tvām ṛṣayaḥ sarva: "It is not my sentiment that I am accepting You as such and such. But..." [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṅa, Jaya. [break] He is giving evidence. This is required. This is required. If you say something, it must be supported by authorities. Not that my whimsically I say something like daridra nārāyaṅa.

Dr. Patel: Again you say, daridra-nārāyaṅa.

Prabhupāda: [laughs] Yes. Unauthorized statement. This will not be accepted. So āhus tvām ṛṣayaḥ sarve.

Dr. Patel:

āhus tvām ṛṣayaḥ sarve devarṣir nāradas tathā asito devalo vyāsaḥ svayaṁ caiva bravīṣi me [Bg 10.13]

Prabhupāda: Vyāsa. Ultimately Vyāsa.

Dr. Patel: "Even You say so." Svayam eva.

Prabhupāda: "And You also say."

Dr. Patel: Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava, na hi te bhagavān vyaktiṁ... [Bg 10.14].

[O Kṛṣṅa, I totally accept as truth all that You have told me. Neither the gods nor demons, O Lord, know Thy personality.]

Prabhupāda: Now, this is understanding of Bhagavad-gītā, that "Whatever You say, I accept as truth." Not that "This portion..." Interpretation: "This portion I don't like. This portion is nice." No. Everything is nice. Whatever Kṛṣṅa says, everything is correct. That is understanding.

Dr. Patel:

sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava na hi te bhagavān vyaktiṁ vidur devā na dānavāḥ [Bg 10.14]

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Vyaktim means?

Prabhupāda: Vyaktim means His personality, personality, vyaktim.

Dr. Patel: "Nobody knows Your personality in truth."

Prabhupāda: So foolish people cannot understand what is the Personality of Kṛṣṅa. Yes.

Dr. Patel:

svayam evātmanātmānaṁ vettha tvaṁ puruṣottama bhūta-bhāvana bhūteśa deva-deva jagat-pate [Bg 10.15]

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Therefore to understand You is to take information from You, not from others." What Kṛṣṅa says...

Dr. Patel: Svayam evātmanātmānam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because You know Yourself, what You are. Nobody knows. Therefore to understand Kṛṣṅa, or God, is to accept whatever is spoken in the Bhagavad-gītā. That is real understanding.

Dr. Patel: Bhūta-bhāvana bhūteṣa deva-deva jagat-pate.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Vaktum arhasy aśeṣeṅa divyā hy ātma-vibhūtayaḥ [Bg 10.16].

Prabhupāda: Deva-deva. "There are many demigods, but You are also..."

Dr. Patel: Deva of the devas.

Prabhupāda: Ah. "You are the supreme of all of them, deva-deva. You are worshiped by the devas."

Dr. Patel:

vaktum arhasy aśeṣeṅa divyā hy ātma-vibhūtayaḥ yābhir vibhūtibhir lokān imāṁs tvaṁ vyāpya tiṣṭhasi [Bg 10.16]

Prabhupāda: Now, this is to be understood, "How You are all-pervading by Your influence, by Your power." That means "You are always there." "You" person is there. Just like a big man, big businessman, is sitting in his room, but he is all-pervading, all-pervading.

Dr. Patel: But he must have got special powers deputed to certain people. And these are that vibhūtis.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is vibhūti. That does not mean... Māyāvādī philosophy is: "Because He has spread everywhere, therefore He is imperson." He remains person, without any change, avyaya. But still, He is spread. That he is asking, that "How I shall understand You, that You are spread everywhere?" Akhilātma-bhūtaḥ. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ [Bs 5.37].

[I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, residing in His own realm, Goloka, with Rādhā, resembling His own spiritual figure, the embodiment of the ecstatic potency possessed of the sixty-four artistic activities, in the company of Her confidantes [sakhīs], embodiments of the extensions of Her bodily form, permeated and vitalized by His ever-blissful spiritual rasa.]

That is... So we have to understand from Kṛṣṅa how He is all-pervading, not that mental speculation. Just like if you take a thing and distribute all over, the original thing is lost. Not like that. Original Kṛṣṅa is there.

Dr. Patel: Pūrṅam idam [Īśopaniṣad, Invocation].

[The Personality of Godhead is perfect and complete, and because He is completely perfect, all emanations from Him, such as this phenomenal world, are perfectly equipped as complete wholes. Whatever is produced of the Complete Whole is also complete in itself. Because He is the Complete Whole, even though so many complete units emanate from Him, He remains the complete balance.]

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel:

kathaṁ vidyām ahaṁ yogiṁs tvāṁ sadā paricintayan keṣu keṣu ca bhāveṣu cintyo 'si bhagavan mayā [Bg 10.17]

[reads next verse while Śrīla Prabhupāda talks]

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. This is intelligence. How Kṛṣṅa is all-pervading, you have to learn from Kṛṣṅa and think like that. That is meditation. That is meditation, how Kṛṣṅa is all-per... Just like in the beginning also, Kṛṣṅa said, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya [Bg 7.8].

[O son of Kuntī [Arjuna], I am the taste of water, the light of the sun and the moon, the syllable om in the Vedic mantras; I am the sound in ether and ability in man.]

So similarly, another explanation is going to be set up here.

Dr. Patel: Now,

śrī bhagavān uvāca hanta te kathayiṣyāmi divyā hy ātma-vibhūtayaḥ prādhānyataḥ kuru-śreṣṭha nāsty anto vistarasya me [Bg 10.19]

Prabhupāda: Yes. So "If I go on speaking, there is no end. But some of the chief principles by which I am all-pervading, I shall speak to you."

Dr. Patel: And the first important:

aham ātmā guḍākeśa sarva-bhūtāśaya-sthitaḥ aham ādiś ca madhyaṁ ca bhūtānām anta eva ca [Bg 10.20]

Prabhupāda: Yes, ady anta, this creation. Before this creation, Kṛṣṅa was there. Kṛṣṅa was there. When the creation is going on, it is maintained by Kṛṣṅa, and when it is dissolved, then it enters into Kṛṣṅa. Prakṛtiṁ yānti māmikam.

Dr. Patel: Aham ātmā guḍākeśa sarva-bhūtāśaya-sthitaḥ.

Prabhupāda: "And I am ātmā, Guḍākeśa. I am ātmā. Therefore, because My part and parcel is spreading, so that part and parcel, particle, that is the basic principle of everything." Just like this body. This body is based on that part and particle, soul. Because the soul was there, the body has developed.

Dr. Patel: Otherwise body would perish. It does rot.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The body develops so long the ātmā is there. So similarly, because Kṛṣṅa is there, therefore whatever manifestation you see, that is due to Kṛṣṅa. Now here the latest theory of the rascals, that life has come from matter, is refuted.

Dr. Patel: That is Cārvāka's theory, this Karl Marx, the Communists. That is dialectical materialism.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now He says aham. Aham is living entity. So living entity is the origin of everything.

Dr. Patel:

ādityānām ahaṁ viṣṅur jyotiṣāṁ ravir aṁśumān marīcir marutām asmi nakṣatrāṅām ahaṁ śaśī [Bg 10.21]

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, this is also another nice thing, that the modern astronomers, they say that all these stars are sun. Sun. Do they not?

Dr. Patel: Yes. Just like suns.

Prabhupāda: But just like Kṛṣṅa says, "They are just like moon." Just see. Nakṣatrāṅām ahaṁ śaśi. So śaśi means the moon. Moon is like one of the stars. So if you say the stars are sūrya, then there is contradiction. How the moon and the sun can be equal? But actually, that is not. According to our Vedic astronomy, there is one sun only in one universe, although there are millions of universes. We cannot count. So there are millions of suns. That is another thing. But within the universe there is only one sun, and by the brilliance of sunshine, all these stars and moons are glittering. Just like moon shining, being reflected by the sun, similarly, all the stars they are glittering, being reflected by the sun, not that all of them are different suns. This theory is refuted.

Dr. Patel:

vedānāṁ sāma-vedo 'smi devānām asmi vāsavaḥ indriyāṅāṁ manaś cāsmi bhūtānām asmi cetanā [Bg 10.22]

Prabhupāda: The Sāma Vedas mean the realization of God by singing, by music. That is Sāma Veda.

Dr. Patel: By music. "I am the soul of the music."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore hari-kīrtana. Hari-kīrtana is Sāma Veda, glorifying the Supreme. That is stated in some other place.

Dr. Patel: "I am Indra of the devas."

Prabhupāda: Yam brahma-varunendra-rudraḥ stunvanti divyaiḥ stavair vedaiḥ sanga-pada-kramopa... [SB 12.13.1]

[Sūta Gosvāmī said: Unto that personality whom Brahmā, Varuṅa, Indra, Rudra and the Maruts praise by chanting transcendental hymns and reciting the Vedas with all their corollaries, pada-kramas and Upaniṣads, to whom the chanters of the Sāma Veda always sing, whom the perfected yogīs see within their minds after fixing themselves in trance and becoming fully absorbed in thoughts of Him, and whose limit can never be found by any demigod or demon—unto that Supreme Personality of Godhead I offer my humble obeisances.]

Dr. Patel: Kramopaniṣadair gāyanti yaṁ sāmagāḥ.

Prabhupāda: Gayanti. So gayanti, chanting, is following the Sāma Veda, and Sāma Veda, Kṛṣṅa says, "I am especially Sāma Veda."

Dr. Patel: Devānām asmi vāsavaḥ, indriyāṅāṁ manaś cāsmi bhūtānām asmi cetanā. "I am the..." Cetanā means...? Life, life and [indistinct].

Prabhupāda: Life. Knowledge, knowledge.

Dr. Patel:

rudrāṅāṁ śaṅkaraś cāsmi vitteśo yakṣa-rakṣasām vasūnāṁ pāvakaś cāsmi meruḥ śikhariṅām aham

purodhasāṁ ca mukhyaṁ māṁ viddhi pārtha bṛhaspatim senānīnām ahaṁ skandaḥ sarasām asmi sāgaraḥ [Bg 10.23-24]

Prabhupāda: Skanda means Kārtikeya.

Dr. Patel: Yes. Kārtikeya. Maharṣīṅāṁ bhṛgur ahaṁ girām asmy ekam akṣaram [Bg 10.25]. "I am oṁ."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Yajñānāṁ japa-yajño 'smi. [laughs]

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ prayair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ [SB 11.5.32].

[In the Age of Kali, intelligent persons perform congregational chanting to worship the incarnation of Godhead who constantly sings the names of Kṛṣṅa. Although His complexion is not blackish, He is Kṛṣṅa Himself. He is accompanied by His associates, servants, weapons and confidential companions.]

This is there. Japa-yajño, Hare Kṛṣṅa, this is the best-class...

Dr. Patel:

yajñānāṁ japa-yajño 'smi sthāvarāṅāṁ himālayaḥ

aśvatthaḥ sarva-vṛkṣāṅāṁ devarṣīṅāṁ ca nāradaḥ gandharvāṅāṁ citrarathaḥ siddhānāṁ kapilo muniḥ [Bg 10.25-26]

Prabhupāda: Now, the Kapila Muni. Who is that Kapila Muni?

Dr. Patel: That Devahūti's son.

Prabhupāda: Son, yes.

Dr. Patel:

uccaiḥśravasam aśvānāṁ viddhi mām amṛtodbhavam airāvataṁ gajendrāṅāṁ narāṅāṁ ca narādhipam [Bg 10.27]

Naradhipam means He represents the God.

Prabhupāda: King, king, king. Yes.

Dr. Patel: King. But not these kings, [Hindi].

Prabhupāda: But they are not kings. They are mlecchas. They are not kings. Asaṁskṛtāḥ kriyā-hīnā mlecchā rājendra-rūpinaḥ. They have assumed the post of king, but otherwise they are mlecchas, asaṁskṛtāḥ. There is no saṁskāra, and kriyā-hīnā, they do not perform the Vedic rituals. So they are all rascals. So how we can be happy?

Dr. Patel:

āyudhānām ahaṁ vajraṁ dhenūnām asmi kāmadhuk prajanaś cāsmi kandarpaḥ sarpāṅām asmi vāsukiḥ [Bg 10.28]

Prajanaś cāsmi kandarpaḥ. "I am the Kandarpa."

Prabhupāda: Cupid.

Dr. Patel: Reproduce, produces.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Cupid.

Dr. Patel:

anantaś cāsmi nāgānāṁ varuṅo yādasām aham pitṝṅām aryamā cāsmi yamaḥ saṁyamatām aham [Bg 10.29]

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel:

prahlādaś cāsmi daityānāṁ kālaḥ kalayatām aham mṛgāṅāṁ ca mṛgendro 'haṁ vainateyaś ca pakṣiṅām

pavanaḥ pavatām asmi rāmaḥ śastra-bhṛtām aham jhaṣāṅāṁ makaraś cāsmi srotasām asmi jāhnavī [Bg 10.30-31]

Prabhupāda: Jhaṣāṅām, "Of all the aquatics, I am the makara."

Dr. Patel: Sargāṅām ādir antaś ca madhyaṁ caivāham arjuna [Bg 10.32]. That means "I am the very time." Sargāṅām ādir antaś ca madhyaṁ caivāham arjuna.

Prabhupāda: Yes, time, kāla, kāla, creation.

Dr. Patel: Adyātma-vidyā vidyānāṁ vādaḥ pravadatām aham.

Prabhupāda: Pravadatām aham.

Dr. Patel:

akṣarāṅām a-kāro 'smi dvandvaḥ sāmāsikasya ca aham evākṣayaḥ kālo dhātāhaṁ viśvato-mukhaḥ [Bg 10.33]

mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham udbhavaś ca bhaviṣyatām kīrtiḥ śrīr vāk ca nārīṅām smṛtir medhā dhṛtiḥ kṣamā [Bg 10.34]

[I am all-devouring death, and I am the generator of all things yet to be. Among women I am fame, fortune, speech, memory, intelligence, faithfulness and patience.]

Please comment on this: kīrtiḥ śrīr vāk ca nārīṅām smṛtir medhā dhṛtiḥ kṣamā.

Prabhupāda: The woman's voice is very attractive. Because people engage woman for singing. Their voice is natural attractive. "So that attractive voice, I am."

Dr. Patel: "I am." Kīrtiḥ śrīr vāk ca nārīṅām, smṛtir medhā and dhṛtiḥ and kṣamā. These are the feminine qualities. "There I am. I am kṣamā, I am dhṛti, I am medhā, I am smṛti and I am the melodious sound of women. I am kīrti and I am śrī."

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Dr. Patel:

bṛhat-sāma tathā sāmnāṁ gāyatrī chandasām aham māsānāṁ mārga-śīrṣo 'ham ṛtūnāṁ kusumākaraḥ

dyūtaṁ chalayatām asmi tejas tejasvinām aham jayo 'smi vyavasāyo 'smi sattvaṁ sattvavatām aham

vṛṣṅīnāṁ vāsudevo 'smi pāṅḍavānāṁ dhanañjayaḥ [Bg 10.35-37]

Prabhupāda: Ah. [laughs]

Dr. Patel: "I am you."

Prabhupāda: Pāṅḍavānāṁ dhanañjayaḥ.

Dr. Patel: That means "I am you."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Munīnām apy ahaṁ vyāsaḥ kavīnām uśanā kaviḥ.

Prabhupāda: Not "I am you." That is Māyāvāda. Dhanañjaya especially, not the rascals.

Dr. Patel: "You" means He is talking with whom? Dhanañjaya.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, Dhanañjaya. You can take, Dhanañjaya. Not that general people.

Dr. Patel: But that is what He says, that "I am you." Kṛṣṅa says...

Prabhupāda: Not you; Dhanañjaya. "You" means... Why you are changing the word? No, no, it is said, Dhanañjaya. You say Dhanañjaya.

Dr. Patel: Pārtha, Dhanañjaya, He is...

Prabhupāda: Yes. And after...

Dr. Patel: But He is talking with Dhanañjaya.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. You cannot make it an impersonal. As soon as you say Dhanañjaya, He is person.

Dr. Patel: Oh, yes, that way. That way you are right. Vṛṣṅīnāṁ vāsudevo 'smi. That means He is the father of even Himself.

vṛṣṅīnāṁ vāsudevo 'smi pāṅḍavānāṁ dhanañjayaḥ munīnām apy ahaṁ vyāsaḥ kavīnām uśanā kaviḥ [Bg 10.37]

Prabhupāda: Yes, Vyāsadeva is incarnation of God.

Dr. Patel:

daṅḍo damayatām asmi nītir asmi jigīṣatām maunaṁ caivāsmi guhyānāṁ jñānaṁ jñānavatām aham [Bg 10.38]

Prabhupāda: Nītir, by argument, by logic, when one becomes victorious, that victory is Kṛṣṅa, nītī. Without Kṛṣṅa...

Chandobhai: It is God's victory, not his.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Yac cāpi sarva-bhūtānāṁ bījaṁ tad aham arjuna. "There is... Seed in everything is I."

yac cāpi sarva-bhūtānāṁ bījaṁ tad aham arjuna na tad asti vinā yat syān mayā bhūtaṁ carācaram [Bg 10.39]

Nothing that moves and not moves is without being.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because everything is His energy.

Dr. Patel:

nānto 'sti mama divyānāṁ vibhūtīnāṁ parantapa eṣa tūddeśataḥ prokto vibhūter vistaro mayā

yad yad vibhūtimat sattvaṁ śrīmad ūrjitam eva vā tat tad evāvagaccha tvaṁ mama tejo-'ṁśa-sambhavam [Bg 10.40-41]

"Whatever glorious thing you see, it is Mine."

Prabhupāda: "That is due to My influence". [break]

Dr. Patel: Aham idaṁ kṛtsnam ekāṁśena sthito jagat [Bg 10.42].

[But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe.]

Prabhupāda: This is only ekāṁśa vibhūti. All this described, this is only one part. The three parts—in the spiritual world. This is all description of the material world. Now, this is only one part manifestation, and the three-part manifestation—in the spiritual sky.

Chandobhai: Tri-pāda... [Hindi]

Dr. Patel: Tri-pāda. [break] This thing. Ācchā. Today is Ekādaśī.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Ācchā.

arjuna uvāca mad-anugrahāya paramaṁ guhyam adhyātma-saṁjñitam yat tvayoktaṁ vacas tena moho 'yaṁ vigato mama [Bg 11.1]

Prabhupāda: Moha, moho 'yam... "What You were, now I understand."

Dr. Patel: "Now I have lost it."

Prabhupāda: "I was thinking that You are ordinary friend, but now moha, that moha is gone. I understand You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead."

Dr. Patel: Yes.

bhavāpyayau hi bhūtānāṁ śrutau vistaraśo mayā tvattaḥ kamala-patrākṣa māhātmyam api cāvyayam [Bg 11.2]

evam etad yathāttha tvam ātmānaṁ parameśvara draṣṭum icchāmi te rūpam aiśvaraṁ puruṣottama [Bg 11.3]

Now, he is creating a trouble for Kṛṣṅa. He is creating trouble for Him.

Prabhupāda: No, why trouble? Kṛṣṅa has no trouble.

Dr. Patel: For himself. Arjuna is creating trouble for himself.

Prabhupāda: No, he is creating trouble for himself because the rascals will represent that "I am incarnation of God." Therefore Arjuna is asking Him, "Now show me Your virāṭa-rūpa." So these rascals, bewildered by these so-called Gods, they should ask, "Show me your virāṭa-rūpa. Then I shall accept you." That is the process. Not that "I am incarnation of God." How you become incarnation? Just lift one hill. Huh? Or show me virāṭa-rūpa. Or show me that you have sixteen thousand wives and you are maintaining them in sixteen thousand palaces. Then you call yourself that "I am incarnation of Kṛṣṅa." Otherwise, you rascal, I cannot believe you. For them. Otherwise, Kṛṣṅa... He knows what is Kṛṣṅa, but because in future some rascal will come and will say that "I am incarnation of God," therefore it is a warning that before accepting one rascal as incarnation, you ask him to show virāṭa-rūpa.

Dr. Patel:

manyase yadi tac chakyaṁ mayā draṣṭum iti prabho yogeśvara tato me tvaṁ darśayātmānam avyayam [Bg 11.4]

Prabhupāda: Yes. So because Arjuna was not accustomed to this impersonal theory...

Dr. Patel: Even the pastime, rūpa vi...

Prabhupāda: Yes. But he wanted to see the virāṭa-rūpa. Therefore he said, "If you think that I shall be able to see, then You can give me."

Dr. Patel: Shall I read further?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Śrī bhagavān uvāca, paśya me pārtha rūpāṅi śataśo 'tha... [Bg 11.5]

Prabhupāda: So it was not difficult for Him. Immediately He showed him. That is Kṛṣṅa. Not that "I shall show you some day privately."

Dr. Patel:

paśya me pārtha rūpāṅi śataśo 'tha sahasraśaḥ nānā-vidhāni divyāni nānā-varṅākṛtīni ca [Bg 11.5]

paśyādityān vasūn rudrān aśvinau marutas tathā bahūny adṛṣṭa-pūrvāṅi paśyāścaryāṅi bhārata [Bg 11.6]

Prabhupāda: Just like Mother Yaśodā saw within the mouth of Kṛṣṅa the whole universe.

Dr. Patel: The whole universe.

ihaika-sthaṁ jagat kṛtsnaṁ paśyādya sa-carācaram mama dehe guḍākeśa yac cānyad draṣṭum icchasi [Bg 11.7]

na tu māṁ śakyase draṣṭum anenaiva sva-cakṣuṣā divyaṁ dadāmi te cakṣuḥ paśya me yogam aiśvaram [Bg 11.8]

Prabhupāda: Ah. "Because you are not accustomed to see this virāṭa form, therefore I give you special vision to see it."

Dr. Patel:

evam uktvā tato rājan mahā-yogeśvaro hariḥ darśayāmāsa pārthāya paramaṁ rūpam aiśvaram [Bg 11.9]

Prabhupāda: So this virāṭa-rūpa is subordinate. Darśayāmāsa hari. Hari is the Supreme. And the virāṭa-rūpa is a feature, not that virāṭa-rūpa is original.

Dr. Patel: One of the features of His multiple features.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Virāṭa-rūpa. Not that the... Māyāvādīs take the virāṭa-rūpa is the origin, and this rūpa, Kṛṣṅa, that is māyā. Therefore they are called Māyāvādīs. But actually, Hari manifested or exhibited...

Dr. Patel: One of his multiple...

Prabhupāda: Multiple features.

Dr. Patel:

aneka-vaktra-nayanam anekādbhuta-darśanam aneka-divyābharaṅaṁ divyānekodyatāyudham

divya-mālyāmbara-dharaṁ divya-gandhānulepanam sarvāścarya-mayaṁ devam anantaṁ viśvato-mukham [Bg 11.10-11]

divi sūrya-sahasrasya bhaved yugapad utthitā yadi bhāḥ sadṛśī sā syād bhāsas tasya mahātmanaḥ [Bg 11.12]

He had thousands and millions of features.

tatraika-sthaṁ jagat kṛtsnaṁ pravibhaktam anekadhā apaśyad deva-devasya śarīre pāṅḍavas tadā [Bg 11.13]

tataḥ sa vismayāviṣṭo hṛṣṭa-romā dhanañjayaḥ praṅamya śirasā devaṁ kṛtāñjalir abhāṣata [Bg 11.14]

Now Arjuna said. Shall I read further?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Arjuna uvāca. These boys understand this, all of them? All of them understand?

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, I will explain.

Chandobhai: They can hear.

Dr. Patel: Now Arjuna says, paśyāmi devāṁs tava deva dehe sarvāṁs tathā bhūta-viśeṣa... [Bg 11.15]

Prabhupāda: Devāṁs, devāṁs. Tava deva dehe means "Devas, the demigods, they are part and parcel of Your virāṭa-rupa." They are not independent. Just like this finger is part of my this whole body, similarly, all these devas, these demigods... That is explained previously: ye 'py anya-devatā bhaktā yajante śraddhayānvitāḥ, te 'pi mām eva [Bg 9.23]. If you give something to my finger, that is to be given to my body. But that is avidhi-pūrvakam. The thing's to be given to the mouth, not in the hand. But their logic is, because everything is the same, why not here? That is Māyāvāda. Yes.

Dr. Patel:

paśyāmi devāṁs tava deva dehe sarvāṁs tathā bhūta-viśeṣa-saṅghān brahmāṅam īśaṁ kamalāsana-stham ṛṣīṁś ca sarvān uragāṁś ca divyān [Bg 11.15]

Prabhupāda: Yes, brahmā rāmeśvaram. Rāmeśvara means Viṣṅu. Rāma īśvara; and Brahmā, Lord Brahmā, and...

Dr. Patel: Kamalāsana-stham ṛṣīṁṣ sarvān urugāṁṣ ca divyān. All wonderful things.

Prabhupāda: Yes. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṅa.

Dr. Patel:

aneka-bāhūdara-vaktra-netraṁ paśyāmi tvāṁ sarvato 'nanta-rūpam nāntaṁ na madhyaṁ na punas tavādiṁ paśyāmi viśveśvara viśva-rūpa [Bg 11.16]

kirīṭinam gadinaṁ cakriṅaṁ ca tejo-rāśiṁ sarvato dīptimantam

Prabhupāda: Now even in His virāṭa-rūpa, He is person, kirīṭina. He has got helmet, kirīṭina. Then?

Dr. Patel:

paśyāmi tvāṁ durnirīkṣyaṁ samantād dīptānalārka-dyutim aprameyam [Bg 11.17]

tvam akṣaraṁ paramaṁ veditavyaṁ tvam asya viśvasya paraṁ nidhānam tvam avyayaḥ śāśvata-dharma-goptā sanātanas tvaṁ puruṣo mato me [Bg 11.18]

He is now frightened after seeing these things.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Must be frightened. Now, suppose all of a sudden if you see a very big person, you will not be frightened? Because you are not accustomed to see that.

Dr. Patel: Yes. Anādi-madhyāntam ananta-vīryam ananta-bāhuṁ śaśi-sūrya-netram paśyāmi tvāṁ dīpta-hutāśa-vaktraṁ... [Bg 11.19]

Prabhupāda: Now here is one important thing: śaśi-sūrya-netram. The śaśi, the moon, and the sun are the two eyes of God. Now in Brahma-saṁhitā it is also confirmed, yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṅām [Bs 5.52].

[The sun who is the king of all the planets, full of infinite effulgence, the image of the good soul, is as the eye of this world. I adore the primeval Lord Govinda in pursuance of whose order the sun performs his journey mounting the wheel of time.]

So in the Upaniṣads it is said, "When God sees, then you can see." So this... When the sunrise is there, that means when God sees, you can see. In the darkness you cannot see. And still, you are proud of your eyes. Yes. Without God seeing, you cannot see. And still, these rascals are proud of their eyes: "I can... Can you show me?" How you can see? First of all you have to see through the Supreme.

Dr. Patel: Sva-tejasā viśvam idaṁ tapantam [Bg 11.19].

Prabhupāda: And another significance is that you cannot hide yourself from the seeing of the Supreme. You cannot make anything hiding. Because even in the womb there is sunshine, sunlight. So He is seeing there. Apart from being the Paramātmā, from materially also, His eyes are always there. So you cannot do anything hiding. That is not possible.

Dr. Patel:

dyāv ā-pṛthivyor idam antaraṁ hi vyāptaṁ tvayaikena diśaś ca sarvāḥ dṛṣṭvādbhutaṁ rūpam ugraṁ tavedaṁ loka-trayaṁ pravyathitaṁ mahātman [Bg 11.20]

All are frightened.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel:

amī hi tvāṁ sura-saṅghā viśanti kecid bhītāḥ prāñjalayo gṛṅanti svastīty uktvā maharṣi-siddha-saṅghāḥ stuvanti tvāṁ stutibhiḥ puṣkalābhiḥ [Bg 11.21]

rudrādityā vasavo ye ca sādhyā viśve 'śvinau marutaś coṣmapāś ca

Prabhupāda: So everyone is worshiping Him.

Dr. Patel:

gandharva-yakṣāsura-siddha-saṅghā vīkṣante tvāṁ vismitāś caiva sarve [Bg 11.22]

Rūpaṁ mahat te bahu-vaktra-netraṁ [Bg 11.23].

Prabhupāda: They do not understand. If you go on simply reading...

Dr. Patel: But you say read, so I read. You order me, I stop.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Shall I read again?

Prabhupāda: What is that line?

Dr. Patel: There were so many lines. I will again. Aneka divya... Divi-sūrya-sahasrasya bhaved yugapad utthitā...

Prabhupāda: Ah, this is the comparison now, that divi, "In the sky, if there were thousands of suns at a time, then the brilliance of the virāṭa-rūpa could be understood." This is an example.

Dr. Patel: He saw everyone in Him.

divi sūrya-sahasrasya bhaved yugapad utthitā yadi bhāḥ sadṛṣī sā syād bhāsas tasya mahātmanaḥ [Bg 11.12]

Tatraikasthaṁ jagat kṛtsnaṁ. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...in Him. Then he got...

Dr. Patel: Then he got frightened, and then he... [indistinct]

Prabhupāda: The varieties, varieties. The varieties he is seeing. That is the vision of the Vaiṣṅava. The Vaiṣṅavas also know that everything is one, but he sees the variety.

Dr. Patel: I will read again from this.

Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] [end]